Nothing in my post should be interpreted that you should be wearing Level 4 plates, unless you have a preponderance of AP being used in your area (which if CONUS, you don't).
The point is simple: if you're making a decision to put on plates, then put on plates which meet reasonably expected threats. Yes, it's reasonable to expect M855 as a threat for a LEO in America. So, yes, you should buy plates which stop M855.
That's keeping it in perspective. That's a realistic and reasonable answer to your question. That's not me being a dick to you.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
What Erick and TGS have written above is right on target so to speak.
It is easy to stop 7.62 M80 ball and 7.62x39mm ball; harder to stop M193 and M855. M855A1 and M80A1 are substantially more difficult to stop.
As noted, in CONUS, your plates need to stop both M193, as well as M855. If you work near a US military installation, then stopping M855A1 and M80A1 may be a necessary consideration.
Level IV is absolutely stupid, as it is designed to stop mid 20th century threats (ie. WWII era AP projectiles) that are virtually non-exisitant in CONUS. If you truly need to stop AP projectiles, then get something designed to stop modern AP threats, at a minimum late 20th century M995 and M993, and higher capability if facing 21st century AP loads.
Oh--10x12 sizing is also lame; SAPI sized are far preferable.
And yes, this remains valid: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post281766
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
Doc,
I am a tad confused.
In your post in the other thread, you continually mention level III plates needing to stop M855.
I was under the impression that level III plates were not rated to stop that? Hence, why I erroneously gravitated towards III+ as I thought III+ was rated to stop 193 AND M855.
What am I missing here?
Does someone have a good breakdown of the NIJ standard? I looked NIJ 0101.04. It simply lists III as being rated for M80 ball. Level 4 is listed as being "AP" rated.
Is this the wrong standard?
The marketing fluff from companies sure can get confusing lol.
I think the point that DocGKR is making is that you absolutely do not need a level IV plate, but if you get a level III plate rather than a special threat, you absolute need to make sure it can defeat both M193 and M855. Level IIIs do not inherently defeat M193 or M855, but they can; he is dispensing with the marketing fluff of level III+ or III++, and speaking specifically about just NIJ rated level III plates in general (which in theory level III+ and level III++ plates are).
The current NIJ level III plate is rated to stop 6 rounds of M80. Level IV is rate to stop a single round of M2AP. There is no certification for defeating M193 or M855 at this time, though the next generation of standards will specify that (RF1 must defeat M80, M193, and some flavor of 7.62×39mm, not sure if ball or MSC, RF2 must defeat the same things along with M855, RF3 is just a single round of M2AP, identical to the current level IV).
I think the path moving forward best would be to look at special threat plates and level III plates, and then see specifically what they are rated to defeat, looking specifically for M193 and M855 to both show up, paying attention to the velocities they were tested at (I recall seeing some steel plates stating that they defeated M193... at 2900 FPS, which can easily be exceeded by a 14.5" barrel); if they don't show up on the spec sheet as something defeated, ignore them, regardless of the rest of rating.
Last edited by Default.mp3; 02-22-2024 at 10:13 PM.
@Magsz
Is it the wrong one? YES! 0101.04 is really, really old.
0101.06 took effect in the late 00s. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the 0101.07 standard was finally announced in November of last year. Here's a summary of what's in the new standard: https://americancop.com/nijs-new-body-armor-standards/
Here is NIJ Standard 0123.00 - Specification for NIJ Ballistic Protection Levels and Associated Test Threats, which is where the actual threats for NIJ 0101.07 are specified. You won't find these in the main document, that mostly goes over armor sizing, testing methodology etc etc.
If you know others with some different varieties, it may be worth seeing if you can use them for a day. I wasn't concerned about the thickness until I got some super lightweight side plates that were about double the thickness of my front and back plates. I had immediate buyer's regret. I could have "trained around it" and gotten used to it, but didn't want to because the bulk was just too much for me to want to deal with. On the rifle ratings, I agree that I think 855 and 193 are a requirement. All of the notable high profile shootings I can think of recently had one of those rounds involved as far as I know.
I've been meaning to buy the VS API-BZs, I should really start setting aside cash for those.