ATF Raids Larry Vickers? Anyone know anything about this?

[awp_101]

Could you clarify what you mean by "visit," please? I haven't seen any disclosures of them visiting any particular or specific address associated with LAV, and would be grateful for the education.

Further, how would such a visit, of whatever sort, potentially bring this criminality to their attention?

The title of the thread includes "ATF raids Larry Vickers". To me "raid" implies something beyond "Hey, can you come to our office to discuss (fill in the blank)" or a knock at the door and "We would like to discuss (fill in the blank) with you". I don't see anything in the thread that suggests a "raid" took place, therefore it seems to me there might have been a visit or conversation such as I described. The forfeited items didn't walk themselves to wherever they are being stored by the ATF (or whomever would hold on to them) so it seems there was contact of some sort between the government and LAV (and his lawyer).

As for the second part, @TGS mentioned the most likely possibility of how this came to the ATFs attention, but if there was a visit/raid, say over his expired license/SOT, is it not possible that something caught an ATF agent's attention as the items were being catalogued? A packing slip? Something obviously manufactured post-sanctions?

I don't do conspiracy theories or automatically believe every "good guy/cool guy" is being railroaded when they get into trouble or that the driving purpose of every government agent/agency is to destroy the lives of normal Earth people. I asked my questions out of genuine curiosity, not out of any prejudice or hidden agenda.

[BWT]

Going back on topic - the whole thing with LAV is sad but he messed up bad.

However, the posting / discussion of his plea is important because the impression in the gun world is “ATF picking on NFA collectors” vs violation of sanctions with a hostile power and fraud with a lot of money in play.

It is sad. I hate to say my own comments here didn’t age well as more information came to light.

I just wonder why - money was probably not going to be a problem for the guy through other legitimate means. I agree with your other comment is he the precedent (or at least part of) for scrutiny on everyone else.

[HCM]

I'm curious which came first. Did the "visit" that started this thread bring this whole thing to their attention or was the visit the result of something/someone else that brought this whole thing to their attention?

Which “visit” are you taking about ?

[1Rangemaster]

Going back on topic - the whole thing with LAV is sad but he messed up bad.

However, the posting / discussion of his plea is important because the impression in the gun world is “ATF picking on NFA collectors” vs violation of sanctions with a hostile power and fraud with a lot of money in play.

I was mildly surprised Thursday evening when I first read about this here. Now I find the situation, as some do here, to be sad and very disappointing concerning Vickers guilty plea. He served his country and made some pretty meaningful contributions in custom pistol work, firearms design and instruction.
But what the absolute fuck? It's pretty clear he knew he was breaking laws, and so the system will take this to some conclusion.
From a personal standpoint I hope he can salvage something. But he has now pretty clearly dishonored himself. Hubris and greed have done in otherwise good people.'

[awp_101]

Which “visit” are you taking about ?

The title of the thread includes "ATF raids Larry Vickers" leaving the impression there was a meeting of some sort between the government and LAV/his lawyers. Whether this was done at his premises or a government office I have no idea, I'm just asking questions as noted in post #111, that's all.

[HCM]

The title of the thread includes "ATF raids Larry Vickers". To me "raid" implies something beyond "Hey, can you come to our office to discuss (fill in the blank)" or a knock at the door and "We would like to discuss (fill in the blank) with you". I don't see anything in the thread that suggests a "raid" took place, therefore it seems to me there might have been a visit or conversation such as I described. The forfeited items didn't walk themselves to wherever they are being stored by the ATF (or whomever would hold on to them) so it seems there was contact of some sort between the government and LAV (and his lawyer).

As for the second part, @TGS mentioned the most likely possibility of how this came to the ATFs attention, but if there was a visit/raid, say over his expired license/SOT, is it not possible that something caught an ATF agent's attention as the items were being catalogued? A packing slip? Something obviously manufactured post-sanctions?

I don't do conspiracy theories or automatically believe every "good guy/cool guy" is being railroaded when they get into trouble or that the driving purpose of every government agent/agency is to destroy the lives of normal Earth people. I asked my questions out of genuine curiosity, not out of any prejudice or hidden agenda.

Have you read the thread, the press release regarding the indictment and the 10 page statement of facts from LAV’s plea agreement?

The questions you’re asking have been asked and answered.

Keep in mind some things will not be made public to protect sources and methods and that indictments, play agreements, etc. normally only include the fax necessary to establish the relevant charges not all facts that are known.

The thread started in 2021 when ATF went to LAV’s house and seized a bunch of his machine guns via legal process.

I wouldn’t call it an actual “raid”, but I wouldn’t call it a friendly chat either but the investigation obviously predates that by months, if not years.

The facts LAV plead to indicate the criminal conduct he engaged in began in 2014/2015.

The recent events (indictment and LAV plea) start on page 5.

As previously discussed, we are all victims are a frame of reference and his gun people. We are all focused on LAV because he is a “gun celebrity.”

However, LAV appears to be “collateral damage” or more correctly when you lay down with dogs you get fleas. As also discussed upthread the original target of this case appears to be Sullivan the HSI Analyst who is operating a firearms, importation business on the side, a clear conflict of interest for someone who works in import export / violation of customs law matters. When one is in a position like that and has a security clearance one gets extra scrutiny. From the outside looking in, this case appears to have originated with DHS office of inspector, general, and the FBI (who handle counter intelligence matters involving hostile foreign powers). It appears Atf and IRS did not become involved until later.

As TGS summed up, so well, this is not an NFA case, this is a sanctions violation / counter proliferation case where the items concerned just happened to be machine guns.

Sullivan was importing machine guns based on fraudulent paperwork and guns to be cut up and sold as parts kits for LAV, including items from Russia in violation of sanctions. That’s a problem if one works in a sensitive government position and has a security clearance.

Re the expired SOT - its possible LAV intentionally did not renew because he knew what was coming.

[TGS]

Sullivan was importing machine guns based on fraudulent paperwork and guns to be cut up and sold as parts kits for LAV.

And, as you mentioned in our texts, just wait until the LAV fanbois realize that LAV was a snitch that just fucked over other people in exchange for a deal for his own personal benefit.

[HCM]

And, as you mentioned in our texts, just wait until the LAV fanbois realize that LAV was a snitch that just fucked over other people in exchange for a deal for his own personal benefit.

For those of us “in the business” it’s pretty clear from the timing of the plea in relation to the unsealing of the indictment.

[camel]

@TGS @HCM. Your commentary is always appreciated. Thank you.

[LittleLebowski]

Going back on topic - the whole thing with LAV is sad but he messed up bad.

However, the posting / discussion of his plea is important because the impression in the gun world is “ATF picking on NFA collectors” vs violation of sanctions with a hostile power and fraud with a lot of money in play.

How much money? What, tens of thousands, maybe? I’m not taking Vickers side, he knew better, but I don’t think the sanctions were exactly stopping import of millions of dollars of prohibited, suuuuuuper dangerous deadly weapons either?