Airplanes

[rayrevolver]

747-400 Systems, Jan 2007.



Funny timing for this conversation as we are doing some of this work right now (on something very different than a heavy). I have dodged this stuff in the past so learning a lot.

The icing threat generally ends above FL280 so bug smashers are usually right in the thick of it. I was on a Horizon Q400, I think, from Seattle to Spokane and we got some light icing. It was pretty cool from the cheap seats... Free beers and I was like Ron White, better hit something hard, don't want to limp away from this one.

[entropy]

Icing is “normally”:confined to a narrow temperature band right around 0C. In fact, it’s use (on airfoil or engine) is not required (by manufacturers I’m aware of) below -40c SAT or -10c TAT. There is a stipulation in most engine manuals that it be used at low power setting regardless of temp (like at idle in decent) but I think that’s a CYA and basically BS.

I did get into it on a B727 check ride once. The instructor was trying to bust my balls saying that I had to be in clear air to turn off the anti ice even below the -40/-10 limit. His claim was that once the heat was removed and the surface cooled, the previously melted precipitation was going to then freeze on the surface. I told him he was full of bullshit and that the amount of moisture available at that temperature was so insignificant and the air speeds involved so high that any accumulation was highly unlikely and not even worth considering. We went around and around for a half hour and he threatened to unsat me. I told him to be my guest. Never heard another word about it.

I like that manual. “Turn it on it works.” No discussion on which electrical bus controls the valve, the temperature it maintains, or all the other crap that is really meaningless. My problem with the 737 is that there is close to 60 years of ridiculous trivia in the flight manual. (At least where I work.) Much of it inserted along the way by instructors or people that live in an office and never fly the line. It becomes so cumbersome that you can find literally dozens of contradictory explanations, procedures and limits. Lots of the items are someone’s “pet item” that got inserted to “show” how knowledgeable they were and fluff their feathers. Over the years it just grows and grows. Nobody wants to gut it as that would require lots of work with the .feds. It’s a lot easier to insert something than remove it. The end result is a systems oral that is bullshit and normally a nightmare to annually accomplish.

[David S.]

The EMB-145 (Embraer Regional Jet) has horizontal stabilizer de-ice, but it’s just barely Transport Category.

[1911Nut]

Delete - duplicate

[Suvorov]

The EMB-145 (Embraer Regional Jet) has horizontal stabilizer de-ice, but it’s just barely Transport Category.

It is a GREAT airplane! Going from it to the 737 was like going from the M16 to the M1 Garand.

[Suvorov]

The end result is a systems oral that is bullshit and normally a nightmare to annually accomplish.

Aren’t you guys AQP? From what I’ve seen from my two airline that have gone to AQP, it puts a fairly effective end to those kinds of BS orals.

[rayrevolver]

Icing is “normally”:confined to a narrow temperature band right around 0C. In fact, it’s use (on airfoil or engine) is not required (by manufacturers I’m aware of) below -40c SAT or -10c TAT. There is a stipulation in most engine manuals that it be used at low power setting regardless of temp (like at idle in decent) but I think that’s a CYA and basically BS.

I've been on 2 programs where we had limitations on deck, if OAT was below 8C and dew point spread was within X, we had to use engine anti-ice.

Definitely not a thing on most aircraft I have worked.... But at least 2!

Once you select EAI - ON for the 737NG, for the rest of that flight you are locked into a more protective mode (EEC or FADEC, but my memory is getting fuzzy). And I don't recall there was any real indication to you, Mr Pilot, that was the case. So I am not talking Soft Alternate EEC.

... this info I probably don't have stashed away at work. If we don't fly tomorrow maybe I can dig around.

[entropy]

RR:

Here ya go:






Suvorov:

It’s AQP with attitude.

[Suvorov]

RR:

Suvorov:

It’s AQP with attitude.

Fun,

And to think - I spent over a year shlepping my ass around the country kissing John Hornibrook’s ass in the hopes of getting an interview……….

[David S.]

It is a GREAT airplane! Going from it to the 737 was like going from the M16 to the M1 Garand.

It really is. Not a great performer (it doesn’t go high, fast or far and we were regularly had weight restrictions if there was a destination alternate), but a remarkably simple airplane that makes you wonder why other aircraft have to be so complicated. It’s also very forgiving if you get behind the jet.