Stoeger suspended from USPSA

[rob_s]

That he would risk so much shows how much he cares about USPSA as and organization and a sport.

does it? I have a different takeaway...

[Clusterfrack]

I respect you a lot, you know this.

But I have a slightly different take.

I’m going to say “I don’t think he realized he risked so much because he thought he was the 900 pound gorilla.”

Now that the reality is sinking in, he’s understandably scared because just now he’s realizing what he actually risked.

It’s not that he is critical. That’s okay. It’s that he is personally insulting, demeaning and rude which makes people feel badly while being critical about things.

There’s a difference.

Valid points. I definitely wouldn't have used the approach he's taken.

[JCN]

I thought so as well, but not any more. I think the BoD is packed with selfish Fudds who want USPSA to be their private and exclusive club where they get to call the shots no matter how unfairly. (Club as in Elks, Rotary, etc., not governing body of a national sport.)

I dunno. I don’t know the other BOD guys but I know our AD.

Of course he doesn’t want douches and loudmouths around. Who does?

It’s a national sport… but so is IDPA, right? You think if Stoeger was that critical of Bill and Joyce they’d say “please and thank you?”

F1 was an international sport but Bernie Ecclestone was notoriously protective of the brand and intolerant of criticism.

It’s still a corporation.

[Eric_L]

I agree, and it makes me respect Ben even more. He has worked hard to be one of the best pistol shooters in world history, and is an excellent instructor. He's also a successful entrepreneur. That he would risk so much shows how much he cares about USPSA as and organization and a sport.

Any healthy nonprofit organization should welcome criticism. Nothing he's said has been lacking evidence. The BoD is just pissed that he keeps calling them out on their malfeasance and croneyism.

I agree with you.
We are all the hero in our own narrative. The board probably believes they are doing well. BUT, you always have to keep in mind that your critic(s) might be right.

[JCN]

Valid points. I definitely wouldn't have used the approach he's taken.

I personally think that if he wrote a suspension appeal letter that said:

I care deeply about the sport.
I apologize for devolving into insulting and personal attacks and will try and do better.
I still have criticisms and will continue to voice them, but be more professional and have more tact when doing so.
I would welcome ongoing dialog as to how I can personally volunteer my time to help work with the board to make the sport healthy and successful.

They would reinstate him. It’s not the criticism, it’s the manner in which he did so and in basically instigating the minions to attack, he’s the Trumpian ringleader of the people who took it too far in their eyes.

[feudist]

I personally think that if he wrote a suspension appeal letter that said:

I care deeply about the sport.
I apologize for devolving into insulting and personal attacks and will try and do better.
I still have criticisms and will continue to voice them, but be more professional and have more tact when doing so.
I would welcome ongoing dialog as to how I can personally volunteer my time to help work with the board to make the sport healthy and successful.

They would reinstate him. It’s not the criticism, it’s the manner in which he did so and in basically instigating the minions to attack, he’s the Trumpian ringleader of the people who took it too far in their eyes.

As a frequent pointless head-butter against an entrenched bureaucracy I'd say this is 100%.
Those with authority demand that the individual acknowledge their authority. Dissension in the ranks is not brooked because it doesn't have to be.
If he publicly bends the knee they'll graciously let him continue in the sport.
This time.

[45dotACP]

I personally think that if he wrote a suspension appeal letter that said:

I care deeply about the sport.
I apologize for devolving into insulting and personal attacks and will try and do better.
I still have criticisms and will continue to voice them, but be more professional and have more tact when doing so.
I would welcome ongoing dialog as to how I can personally volunteer my time to help work with the board to make the sport healthy and successful.

They would reinstate him. It’s not the criticism, it’s the manner in which he did so and in basically instigating the minions to attack, he’s the Trumpian ringleader of the people who took it too far in their eyes.

I wonder how many of these guys voted for Trump with the whole "fuck your feelings" vibe? Sure seems like a lot of sensitivity from a group of guys that fancy themselves "alpha males".

Perhaps you are ascribing too much professional detachment to the USPSA BOD? Certainly you underestimate how many of them have "Nemo me impune lacessit" on a refrigerator magnet.

If they could have brought up a slander or libel lawsuit they would have, except for the fact that Ben is not wrong in his criticism and the very last thing they'd want is opposing counsel being granted discovery for the rest of the non leaked documents out there.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[JCN]

@45dotACP

I don’t know the other BOD guys, but our AD is not a chest thumper and does care about other people’s feelings.

He also doesn’t appreciate loudmouths.

If you apply “sportsmanship” standards to behavior, the personal insults that Stoeger has lobbed about would get him suspended in a lot of other organizations.

@Clusterfrack can you imagine if a PGA Tour Pro repeatedly called the staff fucking idiots at press conferences and social media? I can’t imagine they wouldn’t face sanctions. Same thing with WTA.

Many “national sports” require a certain standard of decorum from their athletes. It’s not the criticism that’s the issue, it’s the lack of tact that is a suspension magnet.

[Clusterfrack]

@45dotACP

I don’t know the other BOD guys, but our AD is not a chest thumper and does care about other people’s feelings.

He also doesn’t appreciate loudmouths.

If you apply “sportsmanship” standards to behavior, the personal insults that Stoeger has lobbed about would get him suspended in a lot of other organizations.

@Clusterfrack can you imagine if a PGA Tour Pro repeatedly called the staff fucking idiots at press conferences and social media? I can’t imagine they wouldn’t face sanctions. Same thing with WTA.

Many “national sports” require a certain standard of decorum from their athletes. It’s not the criticism that’s the issue, it’s the lack of tact that is a suspension magnet.

Again, valid and good points. Ben did make himself vulnerable by behaving in a less-than-mature manner. No argument there. That doesn't make him wrong.

[JCN]

Again, valid and good points. Ben did make himself vulnerable by behaving in a less-than-mature manner. No argument there. That doesn't make him wrong.

I guess it depends on what your definition of “wrong” is.

His criticisms are valid, but the manner in which they are / were voiced weren’t constructive and were seemingly designed to inflict the maximum amount of discord and malcontent.

So while the criticism is valid, the behavior can still be wrong for what he was trying to accomplish.

In listening to “Red Circle” towards the end when they had an incompetent CO (forgive me if my terms aren’t correct) and he asked one of the higher ups to complain up the chain… that guy (who complained on his behalf) got demoted and reassigned.

Because it’s career suicide in the military (per him) to do that.

You can feel justified in criticism of incompetence.

But having a mission of discrediting and embarrassing the leadership?

How can that not end badly for Ben?

So again, it’s okay to be critical. But wrong to purposely try and destabilize an organization without trying to be part of the solution. IMO.