Utility of a WML for Concealed Carry

[Shawn Dodson]

Certainly Tom Given's dataset, or Tom Corria's footage tends to support your statement.

That said, a criminal opened fire on me from a position of darkness while I was fully illuminated in my doorway. Fortunately, he missed with the two or three shots he fired. I would have welcomed a WML on my handgun that night.

A WML so he could easily see and target you again?

[Shawn Dodson]

I love it when guys who carry a gun, which statistics say they'll never need, balk at carrying additional equipment (extra mag, WML, handheld light) because statistics say they won't need it.

I posted a thread a couple months ago where a citizen was in a shooting, and ended up having to shoot at muzzle flashes because he lacked a WML or any other light.



I'm giving night instruction in the XCub tomorrow, and know how I'll be conducting the preflight now.

There are plenty of examples of people being killed when they didn't have a gun for defense. There are very few examples, if any, of private citizens being shot or killed because they didn't have a WML on their CCW pistol.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Just for grins. Anyone remember the fad of strobe lights that paralyzed your opponent into seizures and puking! That seems to gone away.

[Shawn Dodson]

I think the cases of homeowners searching with a gun and no light, only to kill a loved one, make a very strong case for the need of a handheld. That's probably my most likely searching/shooting problem that could involve a light, and I prefer searching with a handheld in that situation. If I get startled, I'd rather have the muzzle averted and not need to have the gun pointed in a direction where I'm searching.

Just about every shooting of a loved one in a home, that was mistaken as a home intruder, could have been easily prevented by a simple verbal challenge.

Waiting to identify friend or foe until you're on the brink of dropping the hammer is a recipe for tragedy.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

NTI in the 360 shoothouse. I'm waiting for my turn. My partner on his run, comes out and says: Glenn, I shot my son.

Said photograph life sized target of son was behind a show curtain. Partner cleared the curtain, saw 'son' - bang.

Funny partner story. I'm in a wheel chair in a pseudo hospital. Gun hilarity breaks out. Partner is supposed to wheel me out in the uproar. Very hard to do over a patch of gravel. When we are done, I tell my partner who is a reverend - next time you yell: Heal. I will yell: Hallelujah. You yell: Amen!

I leap up, healed and we GTFO of the fire fight.

I do recall a period in IDPA when some folks were yelling verbal challenges at the target.

[HCountyGuy]

I thought the basis of the thread was the UTILITY of a WML for concealed carry? I missed the part about the necessity. I don't think anyone has suggested they are more useful or replace a handheld flashlight?

I was totally on your side of the fence before the current crop of compact light/lasers hit the market. I used to think it was a combination of LARPing and masochism. It seems to me the utility/encumbrance ratio has dropped to the point of being no more LARPish/masochistic than carrying a pistol at all. And for some reason I feel the need to post about it on this internet thread. Probably I'm just bored and should go outside and yell at the clouds instead.

Ah, I forgot that exact thread basis. My apologies, 20 lashes for me.

Yeah I certainly see the appeal what with the more compact, capable lights like the TLR7A and the like. Hell, I may end up getting one myself since there's not any huge real-estate takeover. I'm sure once I do that somebody will put out a 1000 lumen guide-rod drop-in for a Glock.

[Joe Mac]

You know what is dirt cheap, reliable, brighter than the "El Kabong" SL-20 I began my police career with, and small enough that there's no reason to ever be without one?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DLRK7Q5

I prefer to also have a larger light with me, but you could certainly identify a threat with this at most defensive ranges, if a light was needed for such.

[HCountyGuy]

I posted a thread a couple months ago where a citizen was in a shooting, and ended up having to shoot at muzzle flashes because he lacked a WML or any other light.

Which incident was that?

[Clark Jackson]

In response to your bolded statement.....It isn't so much a "hard no" as it is "is the juice worth the squeeze?".

1) Answered above pretty well. Look over BBI's and Tom Givens' stats.

2) I like tritium, particularly on the front sight. I'd rather have them then not, all other things being equal.

3) I have no time behind a PMO, but am getting PMO curious. I have no plans to mill any of my current pistols, but any future purchases (with the exception of revolvers) will most likely be PMO capable.

ETA: With regard to PMLs, I personally need DG type switching to make them viable for me.

Thanks for the response Chuck, I appreciate your time. Caveat: Nothing below is directed at you or any other person, but rather at the discussion at hand. I feel obligated to add this statement because I want there to be no confusion that I am challenging a concept, not an individual. I want to make my intent to discuss concepts, not personalities, abundantly clear and avoid the derailment of an otherwise useful conversion.

I disagree with @Tom Givens and @BehindBlueI's data/stats as blueprints for every gunfight anyone will ever face. I do not challenge the data/stats presented by Tom/BBI, but I do challenge the use of that information as the arbiter of all gunfight training and/or equipment decisions.

None of the gunfights I was personally present for matched up with Tom/BBIs data/stats and that is both okay and to be expected. A smarter man than I once told me: "every gunfight is the same and every gunfight is different." Pretty true from what I've experienced personally and from what I've seen/heard second hand.

All said, data/stats gathered from others (or through the much more powerful medium of personal experience) are indicators and not absolutes. These should inform training/equipment decisions, but not dogmatically dictate them.

Making a personal choice is just that and I have no problem with anyone's personal training/equipment choices. However, we should not seek validation of personal choices by inappropriately applying data/stats (someone else's fight or even your own previous fight/s) to the unknown future fight. I believe too many of our personal equipment/training choices are unduly influenced by convenience over sapience. After all, comfort wants us dead.

To your point on DG type switches: for those without ogre sized hands, I highly recommend the PHLster ARC Enhanced WML Switches for both TLR1 and X300U variant lights.

[TC215]

Which incident was that?

It’s in the site supporter sub-forum:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....d-a-flashlight