Arvada Shooting Mess

[HCM]

It would be a major issue in my neck of the woods… being you have more Federal L/E that would respond than state/local. We have CBP, BP, BP Sector HQ, Sheriff (office and jail), State barracks, and local PD… all within 10 miles. You’d hope that responding units have it in mind, or that they know you, but it does get a little shaken up when you start considering everything coming together. Hell, we had a hard enough time getting a description of a street bike that blew thru the port… but I guess yellow bike works well enough for blue/yellow bike (got the guy).

That being said, I keep a Level III vest in my truck at all times… which has our “Police” patches front/back (the “CBP/Federal Officer” ones… those are on my issued vest… mainly because I’m in uniform when I have that on), and a shield patch up front. That and the AR are great when I’m responding from my truck… if not, all I have is my revolver. So yelling “Federal Officer” is probably all I got other than the badge in my wallet.

For me, a 911 call saying I’m off duty, and wearing X might be enough for me not to get shot. Shy of that, risk of the job verses possibly saving lives… I like to think I’d lean to the latter most of the time.

The having the threat’s AR in hand is also something I’d be a little hesitant of. Clear it quick, pull the BCG, and shove it in your pocket. Not going to be used against you after that. But realistically, we don’t know what was occurring… and how that aspect went down. It is a shame, but it also is what happens when the narrative labels guns as bad, with zero considerations that there are good people willing to risk their lives.

I see a few issues here.

First keeping a vest or jacket or even one of those pull out sashes with police on it in the vehicle is good but your assumption should be that most likely you’re not gonna have time to access that in a real situation.

Second, if you have a down threat with a weapon in hand you shouldn’t be rushing up to remove it unless you have a cover officer or you’re putting a security/anchor shot in their head first.

Third unless you are in actual uniform or your marked vest I would not be messing with the suspect’s AR from an officer safety POV. Read what Glen Meyer wrote again about recognition and response in the primitive parts of the brain. He may be a hobbyist when it comes to guns but he is a real deal expert in his field of expertise.

Fourth, From a preservation of evidence crime scene point of you unless there is an articulable reason to clear the suspects weapon just leave it where it is.

Fifth - I don’t know if FLETC stop teaching this but “police “is the most clear concise and easily comprehend it thing you can say to identify yourself. Federal officer or XYZ agency it’s just not as immediate from a communications point of view.

[Wake27]

I see a few issues here.

First keeping a vest or jacket or even one of those pull out sashes with police on it in the vehicle is good but your assumption should be that most likely you’re not gonna have time to access that in a real situation.

Second, if you have a down threat with a weapon in hand you shouldn’t be rushing up to remove it unless you have a cover officer or you’re putting a security/anchor shot in their head first.

Third unless you are in actual uniform or your marked vest I would not be messing with the suspect’s AR from an officer safety POV. Read what Glen Meyer wrote again about recognition and response in the primitive parts of the brain. He may be a hobbyist when it comes to guns but he is a real deal expert in his field of expertise.

Fourth, From a preservation of evidence crime scene point of you unless there is an articulable reason to clear the suspects weapon just leave it where it is.

Fifth - I don’t know if FLETC stop teaching this but “police “is the most clear concise and easily comprehend it thing you can say to identify yourself. Federal officer or XYZ agency it’s just not as immediate from a communications point of view.

I'm still curious about the revolver. I know there are some gun hipsters here that love them but I didn't know anyone still carried those as duty weapons.

[HCM]

I'm still curious about the revolver. I know there are some gun hipsters here that love them but I didn't know anyone still carried those as duty weapons.

He’s taking about off duty. Which is why I said accessing a long gun or body armor from your vehicle is unrealistic. And on duty officer being dispatched to a situation may have a minute or two to grab a long gun or armor but if you “on view” something at random off duty it’s gonna be a come as you are event. Especially if they are properly secured. You might have time to grab something in the front seat. Maybe.

CBP basically allows you to either carry you issued duty gun off duty on your Credentials or carry whatever other handgun you want off duty under LEOSA.

ICE was the last DHS agency to authorized revolvers (j frames) as BUG and off duty only guns and they were deauthorized the end of 2019.

[RJflyer]

Fifth - I don’t know if FLETC stop teaching this but “police “is the most clear concise and easily comprehend it thing you can say to identify yourself. Federal officer or XYZ agency it’s just not as immediate from a communications point of view.

I can confirm FLETC still teaches this

[AMC]

Loudly yelling or announcing "Police" is likely the most universally recognized verbal ID. We've been trying to get our cops off of the "EssEffPeeDee!" thing for awhile. One of the most "international" cities in the world, with tourists and residents speaking 100+ languages. "Police" is what they're gonna understand...if anything.

[Joe in PNG]

RE: picking up the gun- isn't that one of the most hokey plot contrivances of old TV shows and movies? Where the hero comes across the murder scene, and picks up the weapon just as the police/ witnesses/ ect arrive, and then the plot happens?

[HCM]

Loudly yelling or announcing "Police" is likely the most universally recognized verbal ID. We've been trying to get our cops off of the "EssEffPeeDee!" thing for awhile. One of the most "international" cities in the world, with tourists and residents speaking 100+ languages. "Police" is what they're gonna understand...if anything.

I can affirm that “police” is also the most effective with non-English speakers and those who speak English as a second language

[jnc36rcpd]

I recall reading about some woke city council that was shocked...shocked, I tell, that ICE agents identified themselves as police when making car stops of illegal aliens. They wanted ICE to send someone to a city council meeting to explain the reason why. If I were the ICE SAC, my first inclination would be to tell the council to get bent.

Agreed on immediate identification as police in verbal commands or on body armor/raid vests. Very few agencies have such name recognition that announcing their initials or even title will result in many people recognizing them as law enforcement, especially those not fluent in English.

As much as I enjoy the "NCIS" television shows for escapist entertainment, I don't look at any of them for tactical or investigative guidance. The exceptions are the episodes in which some sultry dude or hot chick loudly announces "NCIS!" and a bewildered person replies "Who?".

[Rex G]

Prayers and Blessings to the deceased intervenor, officer and the responding officers.

Amen.

[mmc45414]

For your hands, if you look at pictorial inventories (must have one somewhere), of harmless objects in the hands of folks that were mistakenly shot, you would see the point.

We used to drill with cheap children's toys of things like binoculars and cameras and pistols stuck to the targets while the next shooter has their back turned, with the instruction to identify and engage the target with the gun. We haven't done this in a long time, maybe because the toys all got pretty shot up.