What is the effect of fear on performance?

[GJM]

Intertwined amongst many PF threads is this notion that fear/adrenalin/mortal combat ("fear") will substantially degrade our performance. For example, I have heard the saying, attributed to Larry Vickers, that groups will double when shooting "for real." In the accuracy thread, which has now exceeded my personal 5 page limit (), a poster suggested they would likely be unable to make a shot for real that they could do in practice. On the other end of the spectrum, some think they will raise to the challenge, and somewhere in the middle is Barrett Tillman's "we will default to our level of training."

My first question is do we have anything more than anecdotal, that has tried to quantify the effect of "fear" on performance?

My second question is whether the effect of "fear" is universal, or does it have primarily effect folks without appropriate training?

My third question is what is the effect of adrenalin and other physiological reactions to stress and danger, and do these bodily reactions enhance or hinder performance?

[BLR]

Instigator.

Rabble rouser.

ETA: are you afraid of the distracted soccer mom who dropped her cell phone while driving opposite you on a two lane highway with a kid screaming in the back seat with a combined speed of 140 mph?

We are more likely to meet our maker that way.


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[Mr_White]

Instigator.

Rabble rouser.

ETA: are you afraid of the distracted soccer mom who dropped her cell phone while driving opposite you on a two lane highway with a kid screaming in the back seat with a combined speed of 140 mph?

We are more likely to meet our maker that way.


Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 4

More likely to die that way than what other way? By being violently attacked? Or by being stuck with a missed shot when someone else is trying to defend themselves? Not disagreeing with where I think you're going, just making sure I follow what you mean...

[BLR]

More likely to die that way than what other way? By being violently attacked? Or by being stuck with a missed shot when someone else is trying to defend themselves? Not disagreeing with where I think you're going, just making sure I follow what you mean...

On the highway.

The point is: we face, daily, some really nasty deaths that are ignored. Right now there are women in Africa washing clothes in crocodile infested rivers, Indian women gathering rice in cobra infested paddies. Both occupations might cause you and I significant issues, but they do so with complacency. Put them 6 feet from another person who may be drunk/distracted/complacent/etc at 140mph, it might cause them the same discomfort we had over the 15ft croc eying them up.

[JHC]

Intertwined amongst many PF threads is this notion that fear/adrenalin/mortal combat ("fear") will substantially degrade our performance. For example, I have heard the saying, attributed to Larry Vickers, that groups will double when shooting "for real." In the accuracy thread, which has now exceeded my personal 5 page limit (), a poster suggested they would likely be unable to make a shot for real that they could do in practice. On the other end of the spectrum, some think they will raise to the challenge, and somewhere in the middle is Barrett Tillman's "we will default to our level of training."

My first question is do we have anything more than anecdotal, that has tried to quantify the effect of "fear" on performance?

My second question is whether the effect of "fear" is universal, or does it have primarily effect folks without appropriate training?

My third question is what is the effect of adrenalin and other physiological reactions to stress and danger, and do these bodily reactions enhance or hinder performance?

You have alluded to not feeling emotion per se while busy solving a bear problem and a moose problem. This is consistent with a few dramatic incidents in my life that on the face of it should have been terrifying but I felt no emotion during the event and exhilaration after it for having come through it scot free. I have driven with great precision during one of those events of super focus. Should it be assumed that the degradation in shooting is a slam dunk fact? Or have men made their best shot in some life and death situations? War, fight or dangerous game charges.

OTOH absolutely nothing has scared me like waiting during the flight to my first jump at Airborne School. By an order of magnitude it was the most body racking fear ever but it disappeared in a blink when the shuffle to the door started. Waiting for it being the big discriminator. OTOH I know several others who totally enjoyed the jump experience start to finish - people I know so well they'd tell me if it was otherwise.

[Tamara]

I wonder how much of this ties in to whether or not you actually have time to get scared or not?

[John Hearne]

GJM - Dude, you really need to make it to the Rangemaster Tactical Conference. All of (well at least most) of life's questions are answered there.

My quick take is this. Your performance in a fight will be a combination of your physical skill, your emotional control, and the particular circumstances you face. Altering either of these parts can have a dramatic effect on the outcome.

I would offer that the emotional/fear component will vary greatly by individual, up to and including genetic makeup. The key is having valid mental maps for the situation. If the situation unfolds in a manner consistent with your mental map, then your are far more likely to be able to access your physical skills and function rationally. As the incident diverges from your mental map, it become more likely that you will drop down to a more base, primal response.

To me the most important function of training is to help create valid mental maps for the situations you will likely face. Probably the strongest argument that can be made for training within YOUR context.

Your response in a fight will probably not be binary - suck or no suck, but change as the situation develops. The more it matches expectation, the better you'll do.

Vickers comments reflect a set of circumstances most likely to create emotional drops in performance. If you have a long time to anticipate contact, that will work against you. If you are fighting other fear factors - like fear of heights and falling while riding on the bench of a Little Bird, it will be harder to do well.

Other factors to consider include whether you are initiating the violence. If you are executing your plan of attack, you are clearly functioning in the rational aspects of your mind. The reason so many cops die is that they initiate the CONTACT but the bad guy starts the FIGHT. Armed citizens do well because the bad guy initiates the contact but the citizen starts the fight.

[Kobalt60]

You have alluded to not feeling emotion per se while busy solving a bear problem and a moose problem. This is consistent with a few dramatic incidents in my life that on the face of it should have been terrifying but I felt no emotion during the event and exhilaration after it for having come through it scot free. I have driven with great precision during one of those events of super focus. Should it be assumed that the degradation in shooting is a slam dunk fact? Or have men made their best shot in some life and death situations? War, fight or dangerous game charges.

OTOH absolutely nothing has scared me like waiting during the flight to my first jump at Airborne School. By an order of magnitude it was the most body racking fear ever but it disappeared in a blink when the shuffle to the door started. Waiting for it being the big discriminator. OTOH I know several others who totally enjoyed the jump experience start to finish - people I know so well they'd tell me if it was otherwise.

^^ This lines up with my own experiences as well. Anticipation is usually far more terrifying than action. ^^

I think there is a fear response that's somewhat universal in its physiological effects, drop in blood pressure, narrowing of vision, loss of fine motor control, etc. Not unlike going into shock... but whether a given situation triggers that response depends on a lot of things, mainly perspective and experience. If you don't know you should be terrified or if you've prepared a conditioned response then the likelihood of slipping into "fight or flight" mode is less likely. Dave Grossman goes into this stuff in his book "On Killing". You can condition a lot of this response mechanism out of people in training.

If you're caught flat footed and suddenly afraid for your life, your best bet is to run away and pull yourself together before coming back in. I think the doubling of group size LAV talks about is more a result of losing restraint during stressful situations and just going faster than your body is ready to go. There's also muscle fatigue and irregular breathing that may come into play. Defaulting to your level of training makes sense as well. You're not going to suddenly learn the fundamentals of grip, trigger pull and sight alignment in a fight. You either know it sub-consciously going in or you're kittened. Its why cops can sometimes mag dump, reload and mag dump again on a threat while missing 90% or more of their shots... its a lack of training in the fundamentals. Correction... its (probably) not a lack of training, its a lack of practice. They just don't have enough good reps. Its not second nature.

My favorite tag line for this stuff is from Tigerswan, "There is no such thing as "advanced tactical skills" - there is only perfect execution of the fundamentals under stress."

[GardoneVT]

When I had my "near miss",there wasn't time time to feel anything except intense focus on The Problem.

Once things descalated ,that's when the emotions and after-adrenaline shakes set in .
LAVs greater point IMO is that when leads flying back at you and the other guys moving too,you won't be able to duplicate your range performance.

[Al T.]

When I had my "near miss",there wasn't time time to feel anything except intense focus on The Problem.

While I'm not real wild about a lot of your posts, that one was spot on. Problem solving was uppermost, reacting to my glands was vastly secondary.