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  1. #1
    S.M.E. & STAFF
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA

    9 mm: Glock vs M&P

    From 1986-2010 I primarily used a .45 Auto 1911. In 2011, I switched to the M&P45. For a variety of reasons, based on time, scores, body abuse, and ammo availability/cost, I chose in 2012 to drop .45 Auto and switch entirely to 9 mm. In 2012 I used a G19; they were a delight to carry, as they are a perfect size for just about every task--working equally well for carry in casual wear, suites, and scrubs. I found the G19 accurate, but I had to work hard to shoot them with any degree of speed and they always felt like a brick in my hands during manipulations. I also kept wanting to have a safety, especially during AIWB carry and when moving around with a pistol in my hand.

    For 2013 I switched to the M&P9; in many ways, the M&P9 is my favorite pistol to shoot, as the ergonomics on the M&P9 are superb for me and I also love the manual safety option. I've consistently shot my quickest FAST, Bill Drill, Mozambique, etc... using the M&P9. As some of you know, I am currently trying to recover from a fractured right wrist. After 100-150 rds of .45 or .40 and about 300-350 rds from a G17/19 or M&P9c my wrist begins to ache and limits my function for the remainder of the day--yet the M&P9 is so soft shooting, I can go 500 or so rds from one before my wrist starts significantly hurting. While the M&P9 is easy to carry in casual clothes, they have proven a bit too long in the grip to carry easily when wearing a tailored business suit or in scrubs--the M&P9c works much better in these situations. This leads me to have to have both the M&P9, as well as the M&P9c available. I might just stick with the M&P9c, but my mag changes are substantially slower with it than the M&P9 or Glocks.

    But I am frustrated. No matter what I do, I cannot wring out the absolute accuracy I want from the full size M&P9 at distances beyond 15-20 yds. In this regard, the M&P9c are proving more consistently accurate than the full size M&P9. For example, today I started by shooting the old FAM qual cold with my M&P9--no problems. But when I moved back to 25 yds this is what I got:

    No matter what I do, I have not been able to shoot 100 points at 25 with an M&P9--I always get 1-2 flyers. Now I might think this was me, but immediately after shooting the miserable group above, I grabbed a G19 I have only shot 10 rounds from in the past 9 months and shot this:

    In fact pretty much anytime I am shooting an RDS equipped Glock with a KKM or Wilson barrel, I can shoot 99-100 at 25 yds without much effort.


    I am an armorer on both pistols, so that is a moot point. To summarize:

    -- Glock is more accurate at distance, with more versatile carry options.

    --M&P is faster and more ergonomic.

    So as we approach 2014, I need to standardize on what pistol I am going to carry for the next decade or so--(older, well proven) 3rd gen G19's or mix of M&P9/9c. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
    Last edited by DocGKR; 09-21-2013 at 04:22 AM.
    Just a dentist

  2. #2
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Loved the ergos on the M&P. Hated the lack of accuracy at 25 of the M&P. Sold the M&Ps (all five of them) and am now shooting gen4 Glocks. For me, confidence that the pistol would shoot where I aimed was more important than how it felt in hand.
    "Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    VA
    I am a biased Glock fan having sold all of my M&P's. With that being said the details you provide show you favor the M&P and M&Pc. A flyer or two at 25 yards is not going to change what happens when the $*#@ hits the fan at a realistic distance. Keep the M&P's, you like them, you will regret it if you go all Glock.

  4. #4
    I have to agree with MEH. I have been throught the gamut of polymer pistols. Comparing them side by side on a timer and for accuracy. To me the most important aspects of a pistol is that it is comfortable to carry, reliable and reasonably accurate.

    If it's not comfortable....you wont carry it.

    If it's not reliable...then you have a $500 striking tool.

    If it's not accurate....not only is it less effective but it deters confidence in the weapon system.

    The last thing i worry about when i draw is ..."Man this gun feels so uncomfortable in my hand"

  5. #5
    STAFF
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    I've encountered the same accuracy problems from my 2009-2010 M&P 9's, and have since sold them off. One practice session in Culpeper, VA comes to mind several years ago, when we were shooting at 15/20 yards, and my group looked more like a shotgun pattern. The accuracy problems were replicated by several Staff members in attendance. TC was kind enough to loan me a Glock 17 Gen 3 and the accuracy problems disappeared.

    I loved almost everything about the M&P series, but the accuracy problems forced my hand back to the Glock platform.
    (formerly known as GermanSynergy)

    SSG Jimmy Ide- KIA 28 Aug 10, Hyderabad, AFG

    1SG Blue Rowe- KIA 26 May 09, Panjshir, AFG.

    RIP Brothers

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Austin,TX
    I just switched from HK back to Glock(couldn't find a duty holster for the HK). Although S&W was on the radar Glock had the multitude of holster options, parts and inert training pistols that made the decision for me. There is also something to be said for being intimately familiar and practicing on one of the most widely used guns on the planet.

  7. #7
    Have you considered a match barrel for the M&P. That could give you the level of accuracy you are seeking. Or having the Glock grip modified to provide better ergonomics.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Medford Gravel Pit
    I realize they're not popular in most circles because of the reputation of the Sigma(gasp) and I may get flamed for suggesting it, but I've been running a S&W SD9 for the better part of a year now and the only hiccup was the slide failing to lock back on one of the first mags through the gun the first time I bought it. I'm no Todd Green, but the accuracy of the gun at 25 yards is very good.

    In terms of size, think Glock 19 with a more user friendly grip angle. One of the considerations I made in purchasing it over the M&P 9 was that I was only giving up one round of capacity(16+1 vs 17+1) but I was gaining a little as far as concealability goes. It carries very nicely, and with the slight beavertail it does not chew up my fat hands like all my Glocks did. The meaty part of my hand would be bleeding at around the 150-200 round mark with a Glock. For reference, I wear a size XXL glove.

    I won't lie, the stock trigger was bad, but I honestly don't think it was any worse than the stock M&P triggers I've used. I added the Apex spring kit which brought the pull down to 5.5lbs and also really smoothed it out. Apex just released an AET trigger for it(similar to the AEK trigger for the M&P) which is supposed to reduce pretravel and overtravel. I ordered one and it will be here this week so we'll find out. If it does what Apex says it will, then the $20 spring kit and $40 trigger will be worth the $$ for sure.

    Holsters and sights for the M&P fs work for the SD. The gun is a very soft shooter and I've been able to shoot it more accurately, consistently than the Glock 19s I've owned. That doesn't mean I'm saying it's more accurate than a Glock 19, just that in my hands it is. The better grip angle and ergo's seem to allow me to get a more consistent trigger press, at least that's my unscientific diagnosis of the situation.

    Mags aren't hard to find, a little pricey at $33-40 a pop but they take the same mags as the Sigma(gasp) just a different base plate.

    Everyone that has shot my SD9 has liked it, some even went right out and bought one for themselves.

    I'm no SME or professional, nor am I a noob with a $350 budget. The price of the gun was only a small part of the reason I bought it, the features, how it felt, how it shot were the real reasons I bought one for myself. I realize the gun will never reach the popularity level of the M&P or Glock, but it's a solid pistol in S&W's lineup.

  9. #9
    Doc, since you use a RDS, you more than most are in a position to be able to evaluate the accuracy potential of a given platform.

    Going back to my experiences from 2-3 years ago, I always thought the M&P was easier to shoot than the Glock, because the grip felt more natural, the trigger easier to run, and the magwell shape more forgiving to reload. My previously reported M&P accuracy issues, ultimately drove me back to the Glock.

    I have come to believe, with a lot of effort, the Glock can be shot as well or better than the M&P. I also believe you can get higher on a Glock, which if you subscribe to Robert Vogel's theory, is an advantage. Leaving aside my personal views, if you look at IDPA or USPSA statistics, depending upon your viewpoint, the Glock is either an advantage or at the least certainly no disadvantage.

    Another advantage that Origami mentioned to me yesterday is that the Glock is almost the "non-gun" in the sense that it has so little distinct personality, that it allows you to look past the gun, and focus almost exclusively on software development. If you want simplicity, I could easily have two G17's, a 19 cut to 26 size for smaller carry, a G22 for animals, and have no other handguns.

    I want to mess with the Beretta in the worst way, but I am enjoying shooting a K prefix Gen 17 so much, and continuing to improve with it, that I just stay with the Glock. There are certainly times I have been frustrated with specific attributes of the Glock, but I have just stuck with it, and I seem to get past those hurdles.

    As someone who as been there, I think you need to pick either the M&P or Glock, stop torturing yourself about which is minutely better, and just shoot one platform for a predetermined period, so you can completely focus without constantly second guessing yourself.

  10. #10
    All things being equal, if you had to make a tight shot (not necessarily a long one), which gun would you want to have?
    There was never a good knife made of bad steel. - Benjamin Franklin

 

 

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