Q: Self defense items/methods for co-workers not 'in the fold'?

[Red Leader]

Hey all,

In my line of work, which I do not consider 'dangerous' by most stretches of the word, but we will have some of my co-workers going into some of the neighborhoods that I currently or in the past have also worked in. Several of my co-workers are female. A couple of these neighborhoods have been in the news due to heavy proliferation of gangs and murders that have taken place in the past year. One just happened this past weekend. Because I am looked at as 'that guy' at my work who might seem to know something about all this stuff, I have been tasked with doing some research about what some of my co-workers can do to better prepare themselves.

In our last meeting, I heard mace and stun guns offered up as ideas. Some background: I work with a pretty diverse group of people. All political spectrums. We are also a pretty small group. I bring this up to this group since there are quite a few individuals on here who know a whole lot more about this than I do. My first thought is I'm not really sure how effective some of the methods that were brought up really would be. I have no statistics for people using mace or stun guns or the like. For all I know, statistics may say that these may make the situation worse.

What we have working for us: We are frequently kept very up-to-date regarding the latest information about gangs, gang behavior, identification, demographics, etc. My co-workers are also smart. They are not going to dress up in baggy, blue clothes with a sideways turned had and a bandanna hanging out of their pocket in neighborhoods full of bloods. The are also open to ideas.

What we have working against us: Little to no formal self-defense training. No real mindset of such. Depending on the person, moderate-to-no working knowledge or training with weapons of any kind. I work within a semi-to-slightly non-permissive environment. Tread lightly is the order of the day. I do have a green light from the boss, though.

I'm hesitant with the idea to just stick a knife or some mace in someone's hands and say 'good luck, hope you don't get attacked', but I also don't like the idea of them going out there with zero protection either.

Right now I'm looking for some recommendations for individuals who may be entering some compromising and dangerous areas (due to work) who probably will not have a huge investment into self defense. I.E., they will not be hitting the range 2x a week and the dojo.

My first inclination is a basic self-defense class since situational awareness and avoidance is the order of the day. However, lets say (hypothetically) that confrontations may be a realistic possibility (in reality, they always are). Is there something that stands out as a 'best option' that does reasonably well in the hands of the untrained that would still be legal? I know, grasping at straws.

Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks!

[Jay Cunningham]

I do have a green light from the boss, though.

I'm not sure I understand your situation 100% but holy crap you might want to talk with a lawyer first. What is your potential liability here?

[Red Leader]

I'm not sure I understand your situation 100% but holy crap you might want to talk with a lawyer first. What is your potential liability here?

Heh, I'll clarify. Boss is okay with CCW and everyone knows it. That's all that statement meant. Our office environment is pretty friendly (boss set the tone on that) but sometimes the places we have to go for work are a little more non-permissive. There is not a lot of discomfort around that discussion, but I try to remain discreet nonetheless (i.e. I've never say anything one way or another). However, I know that other individuals are probably not comfortable with the idea of going through CCW classes and such and carrying a CCW. Thus, looking for other options. (EDIT - just re-read your concern. No worries, no laws being broken). Summary of conversation:

Boss: This new collaboration is taking us to some rougher neighborhoods.

Staff: Hmmm.

Boss: Lots and gangs and a kid was just killed out there.

Staff: Hmmmmm. True.

Boss: I don't want people just going into these areas with zero protection. I want everyone to be safe.

Staff: Sounds good. Maybe we can carry mace or something?

Boss: You (talking to me), why don't you check out what some options are and let me know?

Me: Okay.

At this point it is just information gathering. I'm still thinking a self defense primer class is a good way to get everyone's heads on straight.

[ToddG]

If Craig Douglas is teaching in your area anytime soon, see if you can convince him to stay in town an extra day to do a dedicated MUC program for your group.

[Byron]

What is the extent of the corporate support here? Moral? Financial? Logistical?

I.E. does your boss just want you to come up with a hardware solution, educate people about it, and then let them decide whether or not to purchase said tool?
Does your boss actually plan on buying items for people, assuming they fall under a certain dollar amount?
Or would your company/boss put up money to host an instructor?

I think the very best thing you could do for your coworkers would be to have Craig Douglas (SouthNarc) give a talk on Managing Unknown Contacts (MUC). Having taken ECQC multiple times, I still believe that MUC is the most important chunk of the material, has the largest impact on daily life, and for most people will be the biggest factor in decreasing their risk of victimization.

It's very nonthreatening material that should resonate with just about anyone (i.e. no mindset prerequisites).

Edit: Ha - looks like Todd beat me

[Al T.]

I'm certainly no SME, but the one constant I see folks allowed to tote are walking sticks. Are your co-workers actually walking around or driving or what?

[NickA]

Following on with the Craig Douglas recommendations - if you can't actually get him you may check out some of his DVD's. I haven't had a chance to watch my ECQC DVD but I'm sure it at least hits the high points of MUC and criminal assault paradigm.
Another thought - Craig might be able to hook you up with a trainer or ECQC grad in your area that could come give a presentation.

[Red Leader]

I think the initial reaction was a hardware-based approach, which to me seems pretty typical, whereas I'm think it probably should start out with a more software-oriented solution. I do think the org is willing to put up some money for something, be it a class or some hardware. Right now I'm having a hard time seeing how a small keychain pepper spray bottle is going to stop a crazy drunk/high guy if he is really motivated, let alone dig around on your keychain to find it, if your keys are even accessible.

I'll check into the SouthNarc route.

[NEPAKevin]

From time to time, people at work or acquaintances have made similar requests. While I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, I do try to steer them toward educational resources, with an emphasis on first learning about safety, and suggest others who are capable and qualified to assist them as I do not consider myself anything but an enthusiast. I used to suggest Jeff Cooper's Principles of Personal Defense as a nice, short primer but do not recall anyone actually taking much less reading the proffered essay and it seems like most have just wanted a trip to the gun range for a "shootin' lesson"

[GardoneVT]

I've been in the OPs shoes before,and my experience was less then enthralling.
Ultimately the individual alone has to take ownership of their own personal security,and it's a major mental shift.A heartbreaking LEO training video I watched lays it out succinctly.A dashcam video records a highway patrolman encountering a driver who instantly leaves his car with a 30-30,shooting.The cop falls back and draws his gun,but keeps yelling "PUT DOWN THE RIFLE" as lead flies by him.Time bleeds by as the crazed gunman keeps shooting all the while the lawman yells "PUT DOWN THE RIFLE" like a broken record.He's killed on camera ,20 seconds after it all starts.

Without the mindset to take a life if needed,a person remains a victim no matter what gear they have.


Years ago at Lackland AFB I had my own mental freeze as I encountered the fact of deadly force in a training exercise.I locked up like a 10 year old Gateway computer.Being a trainee from Chicago,deadly force was a totally foreign concept and it showed when I froze on the practice range.Thankfully it was practice-and I'm forever grateful it happened there and not on the street when real life criminals did pick me out.While I was at a government training range,I alone had to digest and process the reality of taking a life for righteous cause.

There's no external force or advice which can impart that point.The individual has to face it on their own terms