Extraction test

[JodyH]

In the P30 thread there's an interesting "test" of good extraction/ejection.

In some serious testing that we did on P30 extractor function we found what all service pistols should be providing: consistent, excellent (and I should say perfect) function. In one test segment, we did 75 consecutive test shots with no failures and consistent ejection to the same spot. The test is conducted with a loaded chamber and no magazine on board. The shot is fired and the extraction/ejection performance is noted. The fired case should eject OUTSIDE the pistol and to a relatively consistent location. They should NOT eject down the magazine well or trap between the breech face and barrel hood. That's what should happen. The fact is that most of the popular polymer guns don't do this and are in fact running on the ragged edge with regard to extractor/ejector function. Go and try your favorite one out and see what you experience. It's not confidence inspiring.

I think it would be interesting to see what guns "pass" this test and which ones "fail".

The "test":
Chamber a round from the magazine. Remove magazine and fire the chambered round. Note the ejection location and consistency. Repeat enough times to establish a pattern (or lack thereof).

Here's my results so far:
H&K P2000SK 9mm: 10 rounds fmj, all extracted and ejected consistently 5' to my 4 o'clock.
H&K HK45C: 10 rounds fmj, all extracted and ejected consistently 5' to my 4 o'clock.
Kahr PM9: 7 rounds fmj, all extracted and ejected consistently 3' to my 3-4 o'clock. This pistol has a Wolff +10% recoil spring.
S&W Shield 9mm: 8 rounds fmj, all extracted and ejected to my 3-5 o'clock but distance was erratic, anywhere from dribbling out to 5'.

All ammo was Winchester "value pack".

Edit to add reliability data:
P2000SK: 5k+ rounds with zero malfunctions.
HK45C: 2k rounds with zero malfunctions.
PM9: 2k+ rounds with zero malfunctions.
Shield: <1k rounds with zero malfunctions.

[ToddG]

I'd suggest folks also provide as much data (quantitative, not qualitative) about the guns' prior long term reliability as possible. This would allow us to draw some conclusions about how good a determinor of reliability this test actually is.

[Tamara]

I can't get this test to work with my LWS32.

[JodyH]

I can't get this test to work with my LWS32.

Stick your finger in its butt.

[GJM]

I essentially did this test with a G4 17, current production 226, and a P30, along with shooting all the pistols with two fingers/one hand as loosely as I could, and all three pistols ran.

[JodyH]

Does "ran" mean they ejected all rounds out of the ejection port into a consistent pile, or they all managed to put brass on the ground?
I haven't done this "officially" with my 2nd gen Glock 19 yet, but my recollection from times past is most of the rounds dropped through the mag well.

[Tamara]

Stick your finger in its butt.

I was being a smartass (shocking, I know!) I don't actually have a Seecamp.

(For those scratching their heads at the above by-play, I just happened to recollect that the little Seecamps and their clones use the next round/mag feed lips as the ejector.)

[ToddG]

(For those scratching their heads at the above by-play, I just happened to recollect that the little Seecamps and their clones use the next round/mag feed lips as the ejector.)

As do plenty of other guns even if it's by happenstance rather than design. That's why I'm skeptical of the test's overall ability to determine reliability. How a gun works when it's missing a piece (magazine) doesn't really test how it runs when fully assembled.

Is poor/erratic ejection an indicator of trouble? Yes. But if you remove the magazine from the gun, is that poor/erratic ejection being caused by something bad (bad ejector, bad extractor, bad geometry, bad fitment, etc.) or is it just happening because the magazine is missing?

If someone told me my car wouldn't start unless someone was sitting in the driver's seat I don't know that I'd consider that a major reliability problem.

[Tamara]

As do plenty of other guns even if it's by happenstance rather than design. That's why I'm skeptical of the test's overall ability to determine reliability.

It seems to me that, within the overall scope of a modified-Browning short recoil tilting-barrel design, a bit of breechface slop and an extractor that pivots over a relatively long arc are cheap and easy design aids to feed reliability, even if they'd directly contribute to erratic ejection patterns.

[DBLAction454]

USP45 BC date code
5 rounds Blazer Alum 230gr. Extracted @ 3-4 o'clock 4-5ft.

History: Gun had 4 FTF within the first 400 rounds of use but FTFs were only with one magazine which was an older used one. Attempts to intentionally jam the gun by limp-wristing with the newer mags that came with the USP NIB all failed. Mag spring has since been changed and used consistently for the next 2,990 rounds (along with the other original mags) and the gun has not had a stoppage since.

3,390 fired rounds total


-DBLAction454