Let’s talk about front posts & rear notches

[ToddG]

I would never use all-black sights on a gun for carry or home defense. As we saw at Southnarc's AMIS class, running around the dark without an aiming reference isn't cool.

That has been my experience when taking and teaching low-light shooting, as well. Blacked out sights are fine when you control the lighting... whether it's pitch black and you're using a flashlight or light enough to see. But the reality is that lighting is incredibly varied. Just look around the room you're in. There are areas of shadow, probably places where the light is harsh. You could be standing in one place and your target in another. Unlike most low-light training where the entire room/structure is equal lighting, you could move from bright to dim to dark and back many times.

The easiest example is a backlit threat. If you're in a position of darkness and the threat is heavily backlit (a strong light behind him), all you'll see is a silhouette. Try aiming at a giant black silhouette with black-on-black sights. Here's a perfect example of an identified threat that you can shoot without turning on your light, but you've got no aiming reference. Even students running only a front tritium dot with black rear sights have a lot of trouble with that shooting problem.

I was playing around with my new sights -- the first 3-dot night sights I've used in years -- just walking around my house "engaging" various objects. There were plenty of times where I found myself in a dark enough position that my tritium sights were visible while engaging a dark-colored object that would have been very hard to aim at without those glowing dots.

The recent trend in some circles towards plain black sights originated with military folks who are used to operating in a team environment where everyone has lights on their weapons 24/7. A team kicking down a door or blowing a hole in a wall to enter a room isn't as concerned about giving away its position once the action starts as Harry Homeowner might be.

There's absolutely no question that tritium sights help people shoot better in reduced lighting. LE agencies have proven that beyond a doubt for decades now. We also know that the typical civilian or law enforcement violent encounter in the U.S. has a strong possibility of occurring under conditions of reduced lighting. It's not hard to draw a conclusion from that...

[NickA]

Yep..I tried the JohnO DIY with reflective tape on the Defoors, then undid it and colored the white ring with an orange sharpie, but it's not nearly as bright as the hack. I think I just like the dot better than coloring the whole sight, but definitely need to give them both more time. Might try some nail polish or paint next, but there's just no real estate to work with.

[DonovanM]

I recently transitioned to a g19 from a Hk and put the Defoor sights on the gun. I am still learning the gun and sights but I really like this setup. The front/rear ratio seems ideal. They are .115/.150.

Nice, I think that would be the perfect ratio for me for competition and carry. I never thought there was a chance in hell Ameriglo made these for SIGs, but apparently they do, and they're only $30! WIN!

[vcdgrips]

I have evolved from a pre "Hack" set using their .140 orange painted square (with the trit. dot) with an all black .180 rear to the .125 front (green trit)/
.180 rear (yellow) Pro Operators. I paint the front sight with some orange colored finger nail polish from Wal Mart ( color "mango", price 1.38)and make a quick Sharpie swipe on the rears. This yields a highly visable front sight for me and still lets me line up three dots in low light.

I first degrease the front sight with a bit of acetone, the use the nail polich brush and a toothpick. 2 coats will last 3 months easy.

YMMV
David
www.vcdgrips.com

[CK1]

I would never use all-black sights on a gun for carry or home defense. As we saw at Southnarc's AMIS class, running around the dark without an aiming reference isn't cool.

That has been my experience when taking and teaching low-light shooting, as well. Blacked out sights are fine when you control the lighting... whether it's pitch black and you're using a flashlight or light enough to see. But the reality is that lighting is incredibly varied. Just look around the room you're in. There are areas of shadow, probably places where the light is harsh. You could be standing in one place and your target in another. Unlike most low-light training where the entire room/structure is equal lighting, you could move from bright to dim to dark and back many times.

The easiest example is a backlit threat. If you're in a position of darkness and the threat is heavily backlit (a strong light behind him), all you'll see is a silhouette. Try aiming at a giant black silhouette with black-on-black sights. Here's a perfect example of an identified threat that you can shoot without turning on your light, but you've got no aiming reference. Even students running only a front tritium dot with black rear sights have a lot of trouble with that shooting problem.

I was playing around with my new sights -- the first 3-dot night sights I've used in years -- just walking around my house "engaging" various objects. There were plenty of times where I found myself in a dark enough position that my tritium sights were visible while engaging a dark-colored object that would have been very hard to aim at without those glowing dots.

The recent trend in some circles towards plain black sights originated with military folks who are used to operating in a team environment where everyone has lights on their weapons 24/7. A team kicking down a door or blowing a hole in a wall to enter a room isn't as concerned about giving away its position once the action starts as Harry Homeowner might be.

There's absolutely no question that tritium sights help people shoot better in reduced lighting. LE agencies have proven that beyond a doubt for decades now. We also know that the typical civilian or law enforcement violent encounter in the U.S. has a strong possibility of occurring under conditions of reduced lighting. It's not hard to draw a conclusion from that...

That's a fair opinion, but not the only one. Not to argue, but there are different takes on the subject out there, and they're not limited exclusively to entry teams and such, and not viable to proletarian SD/HD scenarios...

"I like black sights better...more accurate, simple picture, Trits only help at dusk and dawn....you've still got to be able to ID the target first, so I always have a light on me anyway."
May 10, 2011 6:22 PM - Kyle Defoor from: http://www.kyledefoor.com/2011/05/de...est-2.html?m=1

- I always have a light on me too and guess I see it things the same way. In a close-quarters, say >30ft and closing defensive situation (like being rushed), it's muscle-memory and hard-wired good index acheived through practice over any sights, under stress of iminent danger instinct makes humans focus and track the target and sight alingment virtually go out the window, that too had been studied extensively.

I practice with my light in low-light/no-light fairly regularly so I don't feel like all-black sights are a hindrance.

To each his own I suppose, tactics that work are tactics that work... just a different opinion.

[CK1]

Yeah, you can lose your light, or it may not work, or you may get injured and be down to SHO/WHO, etc., that said, you could have a malf, or trip over your feet too... It certainly can be argued that tritium may be a better choice given that s**t happens, but I personally don't think night sights are the necessity they're made out to be.

This is drifting towards tactics though and getting away from talking sight widths...

[ToddG]

I just don't see the all-black sights turning in the advantages some believe. On the other hand, there is absolutely no disputing that they make aiming in low light situations much harder (or impossible). "I'll always have a light on me" isn't the same as having it in your hand and projecting photons the instant you need it. And I absolutely guarantee that whatever advantage someone thinks he gets from all-black sights is more than canceled by being forced to shoot one-handed or use some compromise flashlight/gun combo grip.

If someone finds tritium dots distracting or confusing -- especially on better sights where the rear dots are subdued -- then what is going to happen when someone is shooting at you? I find that distracting.

Choosing sights that give you the best performance on a bright square range instead of sights that will work under worst-case conditions seems like poor mindset to me. But as you said, to each his own.

[Sasage]

Apologies for bumping an old thread but has anyone swapped the .180 rear on the hacks to a .164? Would that translate to more accuracy? Would the .150 rear be too narrow? Thanks.

[CK1]

Apologies for bumping an old thread but has anyone swapped the .180 rear on the hacks to a .164? Would that translate to more accuracy? Would the .150 rear be too narrow? Thanks.

Think the best answer might be: "try it..?"

Seems to me that one's choice in sights is very personalized; different peeps, different eyes... I'm not sure if there are any real truisms in this subject as the "traditional" adage has always been that more light around the front sight is faster, but less accurate then a tighter notch-to-blade ratio, yet for ME, it's almost the opposite; with the right amount of light around the front blade my eyes are "more comfortable", and I shoot more accurately than I can with the tighter set-ups.... So YMMV..?

- As an aside, haven't seen what I said about night sights from a while back in the posts above, and since (and after a lot of shooting with guys in different agencies that are not interested in getting into anything as deep as this), I'd have to say that Todd was right (or at least more right maybe) as in low-light training the NS have shown me their value when a weapon-light or laser isn't on the menu).
That said, noticed this week Ameriglo is offering a thinner front-blade w/ tritium than the status-quo .125 we're all used to... Hope that trend continues IMHO...

[justintime]

I really really like 125 front 150 rear. I personally have a hard time with rears bigger than that as I feel like my eyes can't capture the whole picture as easily.