Ron Avery Talks the Science of the Draw Stroke

[beltjones]

Language is pretty problematic. Luckily we have data and math to fall back on. In the case of Cory, it would be difficult to argue that his "new" draw in the video wasn't better than his old one. I don't think that's really up for debate.

[beltjones]

The movement of the gun may require less effort (time) but what if picking up the front sight requires more effort (time)? I think, based on the limited window into Cory's life we have, that anything that is not over deliberate YouTube training would be an improvement. This video showed that and it showed he was capable of doing so, despite appearing to dislike what Ron was saying. I would bet money that if he tried a third type of draw he could touch the 1.00 second mark too. I would like to see the same video and shooter/instructor from a few yards back or on a smaller target.

Which do you think takes longer in terms of the draw? The movement from holster to target or the picking up of the front sight?

[orionz06]

Language is pretty problematic. Luckily we have data and math to fall back on. In the case of Cory, it would be difficult to argue that his "new" draw in the video wasn't better than his old one. I don't think that's really up for debate.

Correct. For this distance and this target size the new method is faster. Does that hold true at twice the distance and half the target size?

[orionz06]

Which do you think takes longer in terms of the draw? The movement from holster to target or the picking up of the front sight?

In this instance I know what takes longer for me, it is picking up the sights. I also know at that distance and target size I would just index and probably achieve similar hits, I have done it before.

[beltjones]

Correct. For this distance and this target size the new method is faster. Does that hold true at twice the distance and half the target size?

Are you of the opinion that his old technique would be faster than his new technique at twice the distance and half the target size?

[orionz06]

Are you of the opinion that his old technique would be faster than his new technique at twice the distance and half the target size?

Nope.

[GJM]

Correct. For this distance and this target size the new method is faster. Does that hold true at twice the distance and half the target size?

Interesting question, which may be skill, platform and technique related. In November I trained with Robert Vogel, and in January with Manny Bragg. At 20-30 yards on the plate rack, I was doing a press out, but both instructors challenged me to try present/pause, and put it on the clock. Shooting a Glock, I was measurably faster present/pause, with an equivalent level of accuracy, at those distances. The difference in time was in the order of .50 seconds, so it was not an inconsequential increment. In contrast, with the Sig DA first shot, the press out was a better method for me than present/pause.

[joshs]

Are you of the opinion that his old technique would be faster than his new technique at twice the distance and half the target size?

I think his biggest reduction in time came from his increased hand speed. Sometimes having an instructor just tell you to go faster can be very useful. His old "technique" also had lots of problems that aren't representative of a good inverted L/J draw.

[jlw]

Language is pretty problematic. Luckily we have data and math to fall back on. In the case of Cory, it would be difficult to argue that his "new" draw in the video wasn't better than his old one. I don't think that's really up for debate.

Better if pure speed is all that matters. In tight quarters one may have to fire prior to being at full extension. Rising to target is easier to block than is punching towards the target.

[beltjones]

Better if pure speed is all that matters. In tight quarters one may have to fire prior to being at full extension. Rising to target is easier to block than is punching towards the target.

I don't think it's meant to be a jab.

Also, when it comes to fighting is there a one-size-fits-all technique that works no matter what? Or do skilled fighters develop an arsenal of techniques to deploy depending on the circumstances?

Dang. There we go with metaphors that don't have anything to do with shooting, again.