Press out "ready Position?"

[lawdogx]

I've been trying to refine my draw and have been experimenting with one that is press-out ... ish. There's a ton of posts and videos on the press-out coming from the holster - and thanks to all for the great info. I do, however, have a question about how to execute drills "from the ready" utilizing a press-out. Without getting into the ready position/position three/high compressed ready/whatever you want to call it, nomenclature debate, my current compressed ready position is at high-chest, which would require an upward motion before pressing out. In order to do a strict press-out would seem to require a face-level ready position. To folks using the press-out, what are you using for a "ready position?"

[LOKNLOD]

High chest, right where my weak hand comes off my chest to meet the gun and the two-hand grip is formed. With a slightly forward aggressive lean, and the muzzle directed slightly upward (eh, 45 degree-ish), the front sight is in the bottom of my line of sight, and I can commence to press out from there. The front sight moves toward the target on a flat plane between the eyes and the target, the best explanation I've heard and repeat is scraping the front sight alone a pane of glass that connects eyes and target. Don't "whale breach" the gun up past and back down to the glass, and don't "bowl" the gun out and then up to the glass. As i extend, the gun rotates around an axis running through the tip of the front sight until the rear sights come up and scrape that glass pane too. Approximately the point where the gun levels out and is pointed at the target is where I'm really getting on the trigger.

[kennjen]

I'm a new shooter, but my 2 cents.

I prescribe to the "Sul position". It's how I been taught and it makes sense to me. Having said that, I think that the press-out is independent of "Ready position" position used. Press out technique does not dictate where your gun starts out from.

What matters however is how you transition to the press-out technique. The best description (that I prescribe to) I've heard is that you "pick your nose with the rear sight" and then execute a press-out. The technique from the nose-picking to trigger break is the press-out, it doesn't matter where your gun was prior to picking your nose.

I've seen other ready positions, like where the gun is horizontal in front of your chest. This also makes for easy transition to the press-out. Most are valid in different circumstances. But, I think we are getting in to the nomenclature debate you wanted to avoid. Aligning back to your question, what matters for the press-out is that a gun is somewhere under your chin for a ready position. This should allow a smooth transition to the press-out.

.~~~ As i extend, the gun rotates around an axis running through the tip of the front sight until the rear sights come up and scrape that glass pane too.

BTW, The nose picking I've described should be executed different from what LOKNOLOD described. If you had a stick in the barrel for LOKNOLOD's explanation, it will cause the stick to vertically swing with the front sight on its axis. Some call this fishing, because you'd be swinging the stick as if you are casting when you fish. With the “Nose picking” method, the gun should be pressed out more or less in horizontal orientation starting from the nose-pick phase. There should be a coarse sight alignment early on in the press out with minimal “Fishing” very early in the press out. To borrow from LOKNOLDS's terminology, both the rear and front sight is on the glass pane ASAP, and you slide the whole gun forward.

I'm not saying this "Fishing" motion is wrong, but it defines the orientation of the gun at the start of the press-out; and it defines how you transition to it and where/how you want your gun prior. In extreme exaggerated examples, you are bring your gun up with the barrel UP; as opposed to gun being more or less horizontal all the way through.

[JV_]

To folks using the press-out, what are you using for a "ready position?"

When I'm practicing my press-out, I generally use a compressed high ready. My front sight is (or almost) inline with the target, and most of the motion required to get the gun on target is lifting the rear, and that's done while driving the gun out. The gun is essentially at a 30-45 degree upward angle.

I don't practice many drills that begin from the ready, but if I do, it's usually specified.

[LOKNLOD]

For clarity sake, the lifting the rear while driving the gun out that JV mentions, and the picking the nose thing that kennjen describes, are what I was (perhaps poorly) describing as well. I can't get the rear sight level close enough to my face to describe it as nose picking unless I break my wrists in a way that loosens my firing grip a bit. So for me the gun has to move forward a bit before I can get it leveled out just due to my body mechanics. Spot on with the "both the rear and front sight is on the glass pane ASAP" comment. What I was attempting to describe was keep the front sight on that plane and bring the rear up to it quickly without the fishing motion.

No matter what, I think the goal we're all pointing toward is getting the gun leveled out as quickly and efficiently as possible so as to have the max time window possible to begin sight alignment (and begin trigger work). In terms of the OP, if your ready position is a bit lower and you have to bring the gun up some before pressing outward, in order to pick up the sights, then so be it.

[Rick Finsta]

Since we're on the subject - does anyone else find that compressd ready for more than an instant or so requires canting of the pistol 15-20* towards the support side? I can't seem to get my body to want to hold a gun straight up and down in that position; it is very, very uncomfortable. As I extend out, my wrists naturally rotate to proper position, and my elbows naturally lock, and the sight always comes up right in front of my dominant eye, but for the life of me I can't compress in without canting the pistol to the one side.

It's almost like I'm going 5% of the way into Sul, which has always felt very natural for me, but I don't use it at the range if there are other present, as I don't like to break 180* on the firing line.

[JMS]

Rick, yes.

My wrists simply don't bend enough to keep the gun purely vertical until it's past a cetain point, on the way to my full extension. This remains true regardles of how much I flare either elbow to the side as I bring the gun up into my LOS...which ends up being a good thing to me, since I'm personally uncomfortable with chicken-winging like that, ever, anyway.

So, since I have only one way to go in which I can keep the gun more-or-less level(ish) AND get the front sight where I can pick it up in my vision before/as I press out....that's the way I go. Folks like you and I have to include a smooth roll movement to deal with during a press-out, as well as pushing the gun forward smoothly. I'm certain that it adds time, but it's less time than having to put my complete firing grip together at the base of my sternum, way below my LOS, and keeping the gun/sights below my LOS until I'm about halfway to full extension.

If one has a given movement to conduct, one's physiology WILL dictate HOW one conducts that movement. There's folks out there that'll insist everybody bends the same way, no matter what; these folks aparrently have never shared coitus with a near-Olympic-level gymnast. People do NOT all bend the same way....

EX: there's a damned good chance that my sitting position with a carbine might look significantly different than Fred's, because I'm of more-or-less average size with a running/martial arts background.....and he a mesomorph that bench-presses freakin' Volkswagens.

You just have another one or two sub-routines you need to run while doing the same thing everybody else is doing when they conduct a press-out.

[ToddG]

Ready positions are situational. I've yet to find a single ready position that can do all things, at all times, in all situations.

As others have pointed out, you can do a press-out from just about any ready position. In practice, however, this works best with ready positions that are closer to the body (Sul, gun held at the pectoral, gun held at midline, and high ready). Going from, say, an extended low ready to a press-out is a lot of extraneous motion.

For most people it is impossible to bring the gun up to eye level, sights aligned, with the gun close to the body. Or rather, in order to do so they need to stick their elbows way out (which I try to avoid) and/or break their support hand grip on the gun (which I absolutely won't do).

The way I teach high ready is pretty straightforward:

• Point the gun at the target and make sure you have your ideal grip.
• Keeping the target aligned in your sights, bring the gun straight back toward your eyes as far as you can without breaking your grip or sticking your elbows out to the side too wide. This is the closest point you can get your sights aligned and start pressing the trigger safely when doing a press-out.
• Keep the front sight in the eye-target line and allow the rest of the gun to rotate around the front sight as an axis. Bring the gun in as close as you choose to for a ready position. Personally, unless space dictates otherwise I try never to let my elbows bend more than 90 degrees because closing up the position tighter than that creates disarm/retention issues.

[luckyman]

Apologies for the newbie question:

Could you be specific regarding what constitutes "breaking your grip"? Does changing your wrist angle count as breaking your grip? Or only changing hand position on the pistol? Or something else?

[ToddG]

Speaking only for myself, I'd consider "breaking your grip" to mean compromising where your hands are in contact with the pistol when you're normally holding it at extension.