Dry Practice Misconceptions - Updated 01-22-19

[Jay Cunningham]

. . .who happen to be adults.

Correct.

[Mr_White]

Been following this thread with interest. Is there a good method for learning/practicing a strong grip/flat press in dry fire? I've been working with a LaserLyte training cartridge, looking to minimize laser "wobble" after I press. My trigger press has certainly seen improvement, but I know my grip is lacking. If the coin on the site drill isn't great for working solo - and it doesn't seem to be, since it's incredibly time consuming/annoying to set up - what is something else I can do?

SHW,

When it comes to lasers in dry fire, they have an upside and a downside.

Upside is that it gives the clearest feedback on the trigger press. When watching the laser, it is obvious whether and how much movement you've added in working the trigger.

The downside is that now you are paying attention to the target to decide whether your 'shot' was a hit. Ultimately, you need to get that information from the sight picture.

Until shot calling is more ingrained than it will be starting out, discerning the quality of the shot via the sight picture will be less clear and obvious than by looking at the laser.

So, a laser is great to initially establish, with pretty good certainty, a great trigger press. Once you know what a great trigger press feels like (in the finger and in the mind), the laser needs to go away and you need to connect the feeling of a great trigger press to what it looks like in the sight picture. Then you can do good work on the trigger in dry fire, and also practice reading the sight picture and calling the shot too.

When it comes to grip, you have to be very disciplined in dry fire, and use the same grip force you use in live fire. You should be getting grip panel texture imprints on your hand after gripping for five or ten seconds, and probably tiring yourself out a bit. Not saying to grip harder than in live fire, but it does need to be just as hard. It can be hard to do dry fire for a very long time if real, live fire grip pressure is used in dry fire the way it needs to be. It gets fatiguing pretty quickly.

[Jay Cunningham]

When it comes to grip, you have to be very disciplined in dry fire, and use the same grip force you use in live fire. You should be getting grip panel texture imprints on your hand after gripping for five or ten seconds, and probably tiring yourself out a bit. Not saying to grip harder than in live fire, but it does need to be just as hard. It can be hard to do dry fire for a very long time if real, live fire grip pressure is used in dry fire the way it needs to be. It gets fatiguing pretty quickly.

If you aren't achieving a full firing grip during dry practice, you're screwing yourself. You know the gun isn't going to recoil, so you hold the gun like a dead fish. However, your hands interact with each other and with the gun differently when your full firing grip is achieved. It's tempting to shortcut your support hand grip during dry practice because with striker-fired guns you continuously remove it to reset the trigger via the slide. Don't do it. Pivot those knuckles like a hinge and drive the base of the palm of your support hand into the grip to provide tight, full 360 degree coverage.

We're really tracking with other, I need to figure out where our thinking parts ways. I also posted in a SIRT thread yesterday that I wasn't thrilled about using the live laser for casual dry practice.

One of the ways you know you're doing it right - "It gets fatiguing very quickly".

I get smoked from 10 minutes of dry practice now.

[ToddG]

Traditionally, right from the get-go, pistol marksmanship is taught with a hard, laser-like focus on the front sight and then a slow takeup on the trigger, resulting in a surprise break.

Without getting into details right now, I think this could be completely wrong and may in fact be a huge cause of anticipation/jerked triggers. Naturally it also leads to slower than necessary speed and "perfomance anxiety" a.k.a. agony over breaking that first shot.

I literally got off the phone with SLG not three minutes ago and we were talking about this same thing regarding different pistols (specifically 1911 vs Glock). I think marksmanship is very important and think it is something that should be worked upon and improved every time one goes to the range. But asking people to be perfect marksmen before they advance to faster, more "tactical," etc. shooting goals is just silly. It's like asking someone to spend five years developing the perfect right cross before you teach them anything else whatsoever about boxing. For at least five years, that person doesn't really know how to box, does he?

The NRA has known this for quite a while as any certified instructor knows. Instead of having students shoot at bulls eyes, instructors give them a full sheet of paper and consider any hit anywhere on the paper -- center, corners, anywhere -- a success. They're satisfied with new students have a fundamental understanding of sight picture, trigger control, etc. without demanding that they develop those particular subsets of shooting skill to perfection before moving on to other types of training and shooting.

[Sheep Have Wool]

Thanks guys.

One of my worries about the laser was that I already have a terrible habit of checking the target after basically every shot in live fire. I was concerned that I'd only emphasize that issue with the laser, because I end up looking to see if I'm getting a "hit/dot" or a "miss/streak." It sounds like my worries were justified. I really should do some negative target shooting again, so I can make sure I'm not creating training scars. It also seems like it'd be a good idea to do only every other dry fire session with the laser, and slowly back use of it off.

Apparently I'm not even coming close to gripping hard enough, though. A bit off topic, but just so you training folks know, things like this comment:

You should be getting grip panel texture imprints on your hand after gripping for five or ten seconds, and probably tiring yourself out a bit.

...are extremely helpful. Any time I can get a visual, tactile, or kinesthetic reference point, it's much easier for me (and presumably others) to "get it," even online. Another example: SouthNarc's comments on feeling a pinch behind your shoulder when you're in retention.

In any case, extremely useful information.

[Jared]

Is there a reason not to press the trigger more quickly?

Jay, I initially learned a rather slow trigger press, which would get even slower on a shot that I perceived as difficult. Nobody I knew had a shot timer at the time, but I'd be willing to bet there were more than 2 Mississippi's in my trigger press, at minimum, back then. I have come to think that this led to a lot of unnecessary tension, both mental and physical, that led to a lot of anticipation problems.

Since this is about dry practice, one day while doing Wall Drills, I noticed that if I just stroked through the trigger, I had a much easier time keeping the sights stable. I tried it live and found it worked live as well. Shortly after that, I bought a shot timer, and started working on pressing through the trigger before the start tone had ended, which helped even more.

In 2013, I started shooting USPSA, and felt that it would be beneficial to learn how to "slap" the trigger effectively. So I started doing a little drill where my finger is inside the trigger guard, but the finger nail is up against the front of the trigger guard as far from the trigger face as I can get my finger. When the start tone sounds, I "slap" the trigger as quickly as I can. For me, I really need a good grip to do this without moving the sights. Specifically, if I relax my shooting had too much, my other fingers want to squeeze sympathetically. I wouldn't use this technique at 25 yards, but at 7 yards or less, I've found I can pretty easily get A's in live fire as long as my grip is solid.

ETA: I can't find the article right now, but I'm all but certain I read an interview with Jerry Miculek once where he said he used to have an awful flinch. He said that he had wondered if he could learn to fire the gun fast enough that he didn't have time to flinch as a cure. As he experimented with that, he wound up laying the foundation for the speed he has today.

[RJ]

With respect to grip, question please.

I'm in the 'learner' camp, and following this thread with interest.

As a 5'7" guy, my hands are not huge. I had automatically put the S backstrap on my M&P from the start, thinking I need to match my hand size.

Surprisingly, I went to the M, I felt better,, and now I have the L installed, and it feels better still. i guess it gives more grip surface (well, duh) and my fingers don't wrap around the gun.

Is this 'ok' to leave the L on, or alternately, what would be the recommendation on students that have replaceable backstraps (as is becoming common on pistols these days) for which size to use?

Thanks very much in advance.

Rich in Tampa

[Sheep Have Wool]

Is this 'ok' to leave the L on, or alternately, what would be the recommendation on students that have replaceable backstraps (as is becoming common on pistols these days) for which size to use?

There's a thread on this here. Surf had a good post that described his process for fitting students. I followed it, using my laser, in dry practice and came to a setup that I was happy with. Afterwards, I verified in a live fire session. One thing to watch out for with the L panels is that they may be easier in dry fire, but cause your grip to break in live fire.

On the topic at hand, I did two 10 minute sessions with a "real" grip last night, and sure enough, I was definitely not gripping hard enough when I practice. I've also tried doing some presses with the laser cartridge and some with a pencil in front of it to block it, focusing on the feel of a good, non-moving trigger press. I'm also thinking I need to adjust my grip panel setup for the VP9, as I'm getting my finger to rub on the frame some.

[RJ]

^^^. Thanks.

[Jay Cunningham]

On the topic at hand, I did two 10 minute sessions with a "real" grip last night, and sure enough, I was definitely not gripping hard enough when I practice.

Almost no one does; then again, almost nobody seems to be properly teaching this. You just get "dry fire's important, mmmmmkaaaay?" with barely any explanation behind it. The best we get is usually a description of a Wall Drill or something. This is my experience from the Timmy side of the house... however the recent Bob Vogel class I took was pretty descriptive about dry practice. I don't know if this is common with competition instructors, and if this is some great divide in the shooting community.

My research continues.