The "new" J-frame

[DocGKR]

Admit it, many folks find themselves with a J-frame or small .380 in the pocket when off-duty or for casual CCW when needing to quickly run an errand, but really don’t feel a need to be armed—like when your spouse sends you down to the local market for a carton of milk, when you run down to the nearest service station to get gas, or when stopping by a friend’s house to watch a game. What’s not to like; J-frames are just so light, compact, and easy to carry.

The other evening I was walking our dog through a wooded area near our neighborhood. Unfortunately, a group of seven older teenage boys had also decided to visit the woods to get drunk and high that night. Evidently, the belligerent punks were inebriated enough to become a bit aggressive and bellicose. They were lurking in the shadows as I came around a bend in the trail and they rudely attempted to block my passage and harass me.

Now, I’d like to think my authoritative presence, strong vocal commands, and Surefire L4 flashing in their eyes de-escalated the situation, but in reality it was likely my snarling black lab who decided she did NOT like her walk being intruded upon by rude interlopers. As the jerks slinked away, I reflected on the situation I had just found myself in--a number of years ago, a man out for an evening stroll was beaten to death by a half a dozen intoxicated delinquents not far from where I stood.

I began to contemplate what might have happened if my recent situation had moved from merely an uncomfortable encounter to a life threatening attack. There was a time I might have just stuck a J-frame in my pocket for a quick walk with the dog. With seven of them and only one of me, 5 shots in a J-frame suddenly did not feel too comforting. Fortunately, I now rely on a G19, as I find it almost as easy to carry as a J-frame. If this situation had instead gone badly, I would have felt much more confident with 15 rounds on tap in a G19—the equivalent of carrying three J-frames. As is often said, quantity has a quality all of its own.

My bottom line is this: while I still love J-frames as a BUG to another primary handgun, I no longer am comfortable relying on one as my primary carry weapon. Long live the “new” J-frame—my G19!

[JM Campbell]

Observations to live by. Thank you for posting.

[ToddG]

Glad everything turned out all right. No argument here, snubbies and mouse guns as primaries has never been a good idea in my book.

[LittleLebowski]

A dog and a G19. Self defense perfection.

[ghettomedic]

Thanks for sharing, Doc. Your incident reminds me of the story (possibly apocryphal) of the lawman who faced down a number of armed adversaries with only 6 rounds of .38 in his duty revolver. "You might kill me," he said to the thugs who had him encircled, "but I aim to take 2 or 3 of you with me." Glad to hear you were able to deescalate.

A few years ago, when I was more of a CCW neophyte than I am now, a S&W 442 was my daily companion. This was before my discovery of the many excellent firearms forums such as M4C, FTTN and PF.com and the excellent advice contained within.

For years I spouted the rhetoric of the j-frame party line. "Better than the Glock I left at home!" and "If I can't get it done in 5 shots, I can't get it done!" were my rally cries. The more I trained, read and learned the more I realized that the number of adversaries I might face in a given scenario would always be one more than I'd prefer and that, as Col. Cooper said, "Statistics are cold comfort when you find your case was the rare exception."

For those still carrying a j-frame or other small-framed revolver, I would behoove you to re-evaluate your situation. The j-frame is a notoriously difficult gun to shoot accurately under stress (the inherent accuracy of mine has been VERY surprising when shot from a bench) and requires frequent practice to master the long DA trigger pull and mitigate the not-insignificant recoil with defensive ammo. For those who still choose to carry a small revolver, I can conceive of no better hardware investment than a set of Crimson Trace Lasergrips. The difference in getting accurate shots on target under low-light conditions with a laser and without is (pardon the pun) night and day and many world-renowned trainers like Vickers and Hackathorn have espoused the virtues of the CT lasers on small guns. My own gun wears the LG-405s and I've not found a single circumstance where I would rather have had the stock santoprene grips.

Does the small .38 caliber revolver still have a place in the armamentarium of the gun-toter? Of course it does. There are few other options that match the reliability, power, concealability, availability and simplicity of the 5-shot revolver. For me, the j-frame is still my constant companion; it just serves its role in an ankle or weak-side pocket holster as a BUG now and I always carry a reload. There are still occasions where it serves as the only gun I have on my person (such as now, as it sits in the pocket of my bathrobe while I drink my coffee and browse PF.com) but the days of leaving the house with only 5 rounds of .38+P at the ready are over for me.

[part-time shooter]

I'm terribly guilty of this, especially in the summer. I've got a worked over PT3AT in a kydex pocket holster that I carry in my off hand pocket as a BuG or primary for most of the warm months. I'd have picked up the Ruger but it didn't exist at the time and the KT has been flawless for me, with hardball and that's what I carry in it. It's just a pitiful choice if I need a weapon.

I rarely shoot it as it's recoil is brutul but it's very small and very easy to carry and I WILL carry it daily, which is the point. I don't have to dress around it, just stick it in my pocket and go. It's fairly accurate out to 30 feet if needed and can be emptied very quickly at "bad breath" range. Yes I carry a spare mag for it too.

The G19 sized weapons are not and I'm now searching for something in 9mm that's almost as small or easy to carry every time I leave the house. The normal compacts are just not quite small enough for that and I do not care for revolvers. i.e. the G26's or M&P9c. They are close and I do like that size but in many cases I can carry the full size just as easily as the compact so that's what I do.

It's with me at the grocery store or gas station or walking the dog or at the mall or anywhere else I go. I will have that mouse gun. It's as easy to carry as my keys or billfold. I'm sure I'm not alone in this either. It's just to easy to think you'll never need the full size for this quick run for milk or butter or bread or whatever and I tuck the 380in my pocket and go as it's "better than nothing".

I know better but I do it anyway and I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

[TGS]

Good to see everything turned out alright for you.

I usually carry my P2000 in a CCC Looper, but there are still situations when a 5 shot revolver is a better choice. Changing in and out of cave diving gear 4 times a day in public places using your car as a bench makes carrying a snubbie much more attractive, even if your potential attacker is most likely a meth head. I carry a gun to increase my safety, not to deal with 100% of the situations that may arise. Besides, if you had drawn a j-frame, you may have only had 5 shots but I'd be pretty sure that none of those 7 wanted to be the first to get shot......

The whole thing about taking the pocket pistol because "I'm running out to the corner store at night for milk" is the one that always gets me. That's the exact situation you want more, and slipping on an appendix holster for your *insert service pistol here* while in the kitchen isn't exactly tasking.....

[Shellback]

Glad everything worked out in your favor. My G19 is my constant companion and the J-frame is relegated to drawer duty most of the time.

[ToddG]

I carry a gun to increase my safety, not to deal with 100% of the situations that may arise.

No single weapon can be counted upon to be the total solution for 100% of possible events. But choosing to handicap yourself with a low-capacity slow-to-reload weapon is a lot different than saying, "I can't carry my optic-equipped suppressed WML'd SBR everywhere I go."

Besides, if you had drawn a j-frame, you may have only had 5 shots but I'd be pretty sure that none of those 7 wanted to be the first to get shot......

I absolutely despise that line of reasoning.

If simply displaying a gun is all that's necessary, why go to the trouble and expense of purchasing a regulated firearm? Why go to the trouble and expense of learning to shoot? Just buy a blank firing prop gun. It will have the exact same psychological effect on potential threats and you'll save yourself hundreds if not thousands of dollars and all that silly time wasted practicing.

I certainly can't speak for DocGKR, but my guess is that he didn't want to rely on the psychological impact of a displayed weapon against a group of guys who may, for all we know, see guns pointed at themselves and others on a daily basis.

Are there times when a snubby/mousegun may be the only option you can conceal? Sure. And in those circumstances it's certainly better to have the snub/mouse than no gun at all. But let's not kid ourselves into a false sense of security and the en vogue belief that tiny guns are "good enough most of the time." Because cliche as it may be, the reality is that there's never been anyone who survived a gunfight and said, "Damn, I wish I'd had a smaller gun."

[SLG]

No single weapon can be counted upon to be the total solution for 100% of possible events. But choosing to handicap yourself with a low-capacity slow-to-reload weapon is a lot different than saying, "I can't carry my optic-equipped suppressed WML'd SBR everywhere I go."

I prefer to "handicap yourself with a low-capacity slow-to-reload weapon". As the Spanish fencing wizard Inigo Montoyo said, "Well, is only way I can be satisfied. If I use my right... over too quickly."