Only "one watch"/only "two watch"

[GJM]

I suspect automatic watches are like certain car brands -- people that have them mostly love them, and those that don't have them think they are not worth it.

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I suspect automatic watches are like certain car brands -- people that have them mostly love them, and those that don't have them think they are not worth it.

Slight correction, you probably meant "mechanical watches" rather than "automatic", since automatic watches wind themselves via movement; hand-wound only mechanicals are by definition not automatic (the most famous example being the Omega Speedmaster Pro moon watch line).

[RevolverRob]

Mechanical watches are no different than any other enthusiast thing.

A smart watch, a Glock 19, and a Toyota Prius have a lot in common. They're all ugly but functional. Their lack of aesthetic finesse and mass produced nature draw the ire of people who care about such things. Folks who don't care are confused as to why you would want a Rolex, a 1911, and a '67 Mustang and why you think their choices are lame.

[GJM]

Slight correction, you probably meant "mechanical watches" rather than "automatic", since automatic watches wind themselves via movement; hand-wound only mechanicals are by definition not automatic (the most famous example being the Omega Speedmaster Pro moon watch line).

I was thinking automatic watches. Hand wound watches are interesting to me and I have a Hamilton that I dutifully wind each morning, even though I wear it infrequently.

I flew amphibs this morning with a friend who is a real watch geek. He was wearing an Omega Speedmaster, and just added an Explorer II to his Omega heavy assortment. I asked him to wear his titanium Speedmaster when we fly next.

My Sinn looks like it is off eight seconds a day. Interestingly my Mido is within a second.

[DMCutter]

I have 6 automatics that I rotate through and I wind all of them every night except the Pelagos LHD. That one I shake back and forth to wind to save wear and tear on the crown tube. Each of them generally runs fairly close to COSC standards. The Pelagos has run at about +1/3 second per day since I reset it for daylight savings time, but it's had periods where it's been dead on for a week. All of them will gain or lose depending on the position they rest in when I'm not wearing them, e.g., face up, crown up, crown down. If you're anal about it like me you can experiment and find the best position, or you can just reset it when it's off enough to bother you.

IMHO (and take this with a shaker of salt since I own 6) in this day and age of Garmin, G-Shock, and Ecodrive, a mechanical watch is an affectation. My analogy is standard transmission vs automatic rather than Glock vs 1911. By any objective measure, a dual clutch automatic outperforms a 6 spd manual, but I'd much rather drive a stick than use paddle shifters. Each of my watches has specific characteristics that give me tremendous satisfaction when I look at it on my wrist, and of course they're useful for telling time and timing steak on the grill, etc.

Also bear in mind that I'm an old fart, just couple months shy of 65, so I definitely like to kick it old school.

[RevolverRob]

So, thanks to this thread I have learned a lot more about Swiss automatic movements and grades.

Article summarizing the grades of ETA movements: https://calibercorner.com/eta-grades/

Article summarizing the grades of Sellita movements: https://calibercorner.com/sellita-grades/

My summary below.

ETA uses four grades: Standard, Elaboré, Top, Chronometer*

Sellita uses four grades: Standard, Special, Premium, Chronometer*

Both ETA and Sellita grades have same accuracy standards:

Standard: Range of +/- 12 to 30 seconds per day
Elaboré (Special): Range of +/- 7 to 20 seconds per day
Top (Premium): Range of +/- 4 to 15 seconds per day.

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*Chronometer is a special designation when applied to Swiss watches. For all Swiss watches Chronometer is a certification of a watch to COSC standards. Each watch is certified (it's not a "homologation" situation). If a movement is SWISS and marked Chronometer it is COSC-certified (there are non-Swiss chronometers and those are not COSC certified).

The COSC Chronometer accuracy standards: Average of -4 to +6 seconds per day for 15-days, in 5 positions, at 3 different temperatures.

COSC Article: https://calibercorner.com/cosc/

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Standard: Range of +/- 12 to 30 seconds per day
Elaboré (Special): Range of +/- 7 to 20 seconds per day
Top (Premium): Range of +/- 4 to 15 seconds per day.

To elaborate a bit, the smaller numbers (e.g., ±4 s for top/premium grade) is the specified average change in time over a day, while the larger numbers (e.g., 15 s for top/premium grade) is the specified maximum deviation possible. So a slightly more functional representation would be more like this:

• Standard:
  
  • Adjusted in two positions: dial up, 0600 up (so the watch face is perpendicular to the ground, while the 0600 hour marker is pointed up)
  • Daily average rate of ±12 s
  • Maximum positional variation of 30 s
  • Isochronism of ±20 s
  
  
• Elaboré/special:
  
  • Adjusted in three positions: dial up, 0600 up, 0900 up
  • Daily average rate of ±7 s
  • Maximum positional variation of 20 s
  • Isochronism of ±15 s
  
  
• Top/premium:
  
  • Adjusted in five positions: dial up, dial down, 0300 up, 0600 up, 0900 up
  • Daily average rate of ±4 s
  • Maximum positional variation of 15 s
  • Isochronism of ±10 s

How the daily average is calculated can be a bit obscure, apparently. Some people just calculate it by taking an average of the different positions. Others calculate it with some weird formula that tries to guess the average times the watch will spend in each position while on the wrist. The COSC I believe averages all the results for each day to get a final determination for their certifications.

The maximum positional variation is the difference between each position tested. For example, if a movement is +8 s per day in dial up, but +4 s per day in 0600 up, the positional variation there is 4s. Thus, it is in some ways somewhat independent of the daily average rate, as you could have a large positional variation that gets canceled out in the daily average rate.

Isochronism is effectively the difference between the speed of the movement when fully wound and how it ticks after 24 hours with zero winding (whether it be automatic or hand wound). For example, a watch may be +4 s per day when it is fully wound, but is +8 s per day after running 24 hours with no additional winding, giving it an isochronism of +4 s. Typically, a watch will run faster as it winds down, but there are many individual example of watches that run slower as they wind down.

For the vast majority of folks, the daily average rate is the most important figure when measuring accuracy.

[theJanitor]

Also bear in mind that I'm an old fart, just couple months shy of 65, so I definitely like to kick it old school.

I just turned 50 last week. My daily driver has a clutch pedal, my watch is hand wound, and my 1911 is still chambered in 45

[GJM]

I just turned 50 last week. My daily driver has a clutch pedal, my watch is hand wound, and my 1911 is still chambered in 45

You are like that guy on the insurance commercial, old before your age and acting like your parents!

So, who has a Casio Duro -- $49 on Amazon?

[theJanitor]

You are like that guy on the insurance commercial, old before your age and acting like your parents!

My parents' cars have paddle shifters. and theiir watches have batteries. Maybe they know something....