G19- still the standard?

[Gadfly]

Factory lem leaves a lot to desire. Couple spring changes and gray guns short reset kit for 90 dollars gives you a very workable trigger. V2 lem guns (most people were issued p2000s) are in the 8lb range. If you get it down to 5lbs and a short reset it runs like a striker. There is a compromise in everything, the LEM was popular because it is an extremely safe trigger to live with. I have tried twice to move away from lem but I rather be safer training from appendix and carry everyday then having an easier to shoot trigger.

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I would prefer it was more akin to a true DAO trigger. But having felt an HK DAO, I know they kind of suck. I am tempted to just buy the heavy trigger return spring, but on HK Parts, it says they are only to be installed in the P2000, NOT the sk. Any clue on if it would work in the SK? seems like a cheap upgrade to try and make the gun feel more like I want.

Torn on if I want to dump more money into the gun. I don't hate it enough to sell it off, but don't love it enough to grab it for the range. If i had to shoot one of my .40s, the 229 DAK would be my first choice. DAK made a great DAO feel.

The gray guns kit looks interesting, and would shorten the reset by a 3rd. But it would still feel like an LEM?

[HeavyDuty]

I would prefer it was more akin to a true DAO trigger. But having felt an HK DAO, I know they kind of suck. I am tempted to just buy the heavy trigger return spring, but on HK Parts, it says they are only to be installed in the P2000, NOT the sk. Any clue on if it would work in the SK? seems like a cheap upgrade to try and make the gun feel more like I want.

Torn on if I want to dump more money into the gun. I don't hate it enough to sell it off, but don't love it enough to grab it for the range. If i had to shoot one of my .40s, the 229 DAK would be my first choice. DAK made a great DAO feel.

The gray guns kit looks interesting, and would shorten the reset by a 3rd. But it would still feel like an LEM?

I use the heavy TRS spring in my sk, no issues. And the short reset kit is a big improvement in my eyes

[breakingtime91]

I would prefer it was more akin to a true DAO trigger. But having felt an HK DAO, I know they kind of suck. I am tempted to just buy the heavy trigger return spring, but on HK Parts, it says they are only to be installed in the P2000, NOT the sk. Any clue on if it would work in the SK? seems like a cheap upgrade to try and make the gun feel more like I want.

Torn on if I want to dump more money into the gun. I don't hate it enough to sell it off, but don't love it enough to grab it for the range. If i had to shoot one of my .40s, the 229 DAK would be my first choice. DAK made a great DAO feel.

The gray guns kit looks interesting, and would shorten the reset by a 3rd. But it would still feel like an LEM?

Yes p2000 trs works in 2000sk, I believe the only different spring in the gun that's commonly changed is the hammer (main spring)

I don't think you will ever get a true DAO feeling out of a lem, it wasn't designed in that manner. From what I can gather from researching this and hearing a popular hk smith talk about it (lazy wolf), it is more of a qusae SAO trigger in principal. Imagine that long first take up like the take up in a vp9 or glock 19 but longer for safety. That is meant to be quickly pulled through and then you get to your wall like any other gun that you pull through. Whether you run that by rolling through the entire thing or staging matters on your shooting style, distance, and difficulty of the target. The lem will never feel like a true Dao because there isn't a steady amount of weight on the trigger as you press it. The take up will always be lighter than the actual break when it comes to lem. Even with my v2 p2000 with its 8lb pull, the take up is a lighter feeling take up and the wall feels like that heavy 8lbs.


I think to shoot lem well takes work, and for some it definitely is not worth it. But if you figure out the way it is intended to be shot and you dedicate yourself to the system (with a few decently affordable changes) you can have a very nice shooting and arguably safest gun for concealed csrry (especially in appendix).


With all that said, there are like 5 of us on PF that still carry LEMs since Todd really made the p30 popular

[Sig_Fiend]

Does the P250 FCG work with the Wilson Combat grip modules?

Yep, it sure does. They're fantastic guns for what they are. This one is a .380 with the fairly uncommon 15 round mags. Between the soft recoil of that plus the Armory Craft flat trigger, that thing is a joy to shoot and a ridiculously smooth DAO pull.

I would prefer it was more akin to a true DAO trigger. But having felt an HK DAO, I know they kind of suck. I am tempted to just buy the heavy trigger return spring, but on HK Parts, it says they are only to be installed in the P2000, NOT the sk. Any clue on if it would work in the SK? seems like a cheap upgrade to try and make the gun feel more like I want.

Torn on if I want to dump more money into the gun. I don't hate it enough to sell it off, but don't love it enough to grab it for the range. If i had to shoot one of my .40s, the 229 DAK would be my first choice. DAK made a great DAO feel.

The gray guns kit looks interesting, and would shorten the reset by a 3rd. But it would still feel like an LEM?

Is the thing you dislike about LEM the contrast between extremely light pre-travel and the breaking point? If so, totally understandable. The light TRS in the V1 LEM P2K/SK feels pretty lame, in my opinion. The trigger feels sluggish, reset isn't exactly snappy, etc. Feels like a crappy SA pull with lots of pre-travel. With the heavier TRS, this is considerably improved.

In my opinion, the sweet spot in LEM is any configuration like or close to what Todd originally came up with (in the case of the P2KSK, should just be the heavy TRS). Usually resulting in a ~6-7# pull (possibly as high as ~7.5# depending on the gun). This reduces the contrast between pre-travel and the break, and it feels closer to a true DAO (at least insofar as these can feel like a DAO).

Combine this with the GG short reset kit, and you end up with a trigger that resets early and is very forgiving. Kind of like a clutch pedal with a huge engagement range that you can just beat on without issue. I don't want to oversell it by any means. They're certainly not amazing-feeling triggers compared to a nice true DAO. That said, they can be made to feel considerably better than the weak and sloppy V1 feel.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I’d still like to learn more about the P250, I remember when they were new and hit the gun rags. I know there are at least two major generations and (knowing SIG) about 32,871 running production changes. Does the P250 FCG work with the Wilson Combat grip modules?

Yes.



SIG basically made the P320 by taking the P250 and making the hammer-fired parts into striker-fired parts. Grip modules, magazines, barrels, and maybe some other parts not directly related to fire control bits are compatible.

One of the big departures was that the rear sight is also the firing pin stop, so it is not in a dovetail, nor drift adjustable. But it came in 3 different heights and with/without tritium. Front sight is standard dovetailed SIG.

you are correct. P250 was an excellent trigger if you like true DAO. Unfortunately SIG QC and the roll out of the 250 in .40 to the FAMS was a disaster and the bad PR kind of helped kill off the p250. But I really liked the few 9mm examples I shot. Wish I had grabbed one.

I thought that the FAMS gun were .357 Sig, but same/same. While researching before my purchase, I learned that SIG fixed the issues with very little ado or fanfare.

I suspect the only way a P250 follows me home is if one falls in my lap for cheap.

If you ever make it down to the Corpus area, hit me up and you can coon-finger/shoot mine.

[RJ]

I suspect the only way a P250 follows me home is if one falls in my lap for cheap.

I’ve learned to love LEM, especially after respringing and adding GG’s flat trigger and short reset kit. This totally changes the pistol for me.

I wish sometimes I’d kept my P30SK LEM long enough to respring it, but alas, the Gen 5 Glock and Tom’s SCD were released at the same time in 2017, and so down the road it went…

[Slice]

My 19.5 is still at or near the top of my edc list along with my VP40. I shoot both equally well. Which one I choose depends on if I want just a little better concealment, then it’s my 19. My G19 experienced occasionally failures to reset the trigger recently so sent it to Glock. Got it back a month later and the trigger feels even better than the original. I’ve been working on long range shooting and fired this nice for me group from 25 yards today off hand. No doubt the G19.5 is a very capable pistol.

[Dcowboyscr]

My 19.5 is still at or near the top of my edc list along with my VP40. I shoot both equally well. Which one I choose depends on if I want just a little better concealment, then it’s my 19. My G19 experienced occasionally failures to reset the trigger recently so sent it to Glock. Got it back a month later and the trigger feels even better than the original. I’ve been working on long range shooting and fired this nice for me group from 25 yards today off hand. No doubt the G19.5 is a very capable pistol.

What parts did Glock end up replacing?

[Slice]

Just about everything. They even rebuilt the slide and replaced the recoil spring. I’ll try and be more specific tomorrow.

[Slice]

Photo of paperwork that came back with my pistol.