SHTF AR 10 or AR 15?

[Lex Luthier]

Heya @Robert Mitchum,
Did your Daniel Defense carbine arrive yet? Seems to me that you ought to have a really good answer to your question in that one.

[03RN]

Give me a m4 with acog with absolutely no hesitation in terms of a martial rifle.


Anything else is just a want to have

[Jay585]

My thoughts are influenced by John "Mountain Guerrilla" Mosby who is homesteading somewhere in Wyoming: I'd go for a 308.

Per John's Patreon

"What I have experienced, over the last two years though, and much more relevant to my everyday needs, is the failure of 5.56 to stop quadrupeds."

and

"The simple reality, in my own experience is that, while 5.56 will kill people, just fine, it’s not as reliable on animals, and in my context, the ability to reliably stop a quadruped threat is as important—if not more so—than the ability to stop a human threat."

Quoted from: Building the Survival Rifle: A Retrospective Update Jul 14, 2023

[Cookie Monster]

From your post, it seems like you have an AR-15 and want to add an AR-10.

If you got the time, funds, and bandwidth to add 308 platforms and it would be fun, then do it.

Probably a better move to use that time for working out and keeping healthy but if you got that basics covered already. Fucking send it.

[HCM]

Live in a Rual area open space westside farmland not in use.

The rest of the area has maybe 20 homes very quiet no crime in the 17 years we have been here.
The home prices have kept out a lot of problems ...

With all the BS going on home and abroad my personality has always been to fight back with every ounce of my soul.

I need no classes in a fighting mindset not looking to buy a set of balls with a bad ass rifle.

Leaning towards a 16" AR10 in 308 with a LPVO on it.
Option two a 18" Barrel AR15 with a good LPVO.

I have a good amount of 223/556 Ammo for range and self-defense usage...

If I go the 308 route which I don't mind doing will have to buy the AR than ammo but this will be an SPR AR not for range plinking or used weekly... shooting and training with my 556 AR's weekly would cut down on buying a lot of range ammo for a 308.

I would buy more 308 defensive ammo than range ammo but still shoot it every now and then.

I am not a Joe blow keyboard commander have been around the block just looking to make a wise move.

All the mindset in the world doesn’t change the fact that being solo and over 40 in any sort of combat are huge disadvantages.

The idea of making it as LAMOE (The last man on earth.) in the event of a major disaster is generally unrealistic.

As is the idea that you’re going to be picking off threats at extended ranges like the second coming of Simo Häyhä or some Jeff Cooper scout rifle fantasy.

The idea that you’re gonna be able to identify threats at extended ranges in the scenario you cited is unrealistic.

There’s a strong case for “bugging in” and being as low visibility as possible.

That said:

AR-15.

5.56 kills people dead. I’ve seen over 30 people shot with 556, 26 of them in a single incident. anyone who tells you otherwise is full of s**t.

5.56 is easier and faster to make hits with.

5.56 can be effective out to 500 or 600 yards with the right gun and the right ammo. But realistically gun fighting occurs within 200 or 300 yards.

556 Ammo is cheaper, more common, weights less, and you can carry more rounds with the same weight. In a fight bullets are opportunities, especially if you are by yourself, which is a real disadvantage.

Longer-term the odds of finding ammunition, magazines and parts to keep a 556 AR 15 going in America are significantly higher. There are generally accepted standards for 556 AR’s and a lot more data about keeping them running long term.

Almost every AR 10 platform is proprietary in someway and not as durable or reliable as a 5.56 gun.

What actually wins fights?

Fire superiority
Mobility
Adequate marksmanship
Adequate lethality

My biggest concerns in the scenario you cite are water and food, with security third. Medical 4th.

Under security I’d rather have two AR 15s 10,000 rounds and a lots of magazines instead of one AR 10 and half as much ammo and magazines. .308 weighs twice as much and costs twice as much.

I definitely want a suppressor to help mask, muzzle, flash, and the exact location I’m firing from. I’m not looking for the quietest suppressor just something to make me harder to locate.

I also want body armor, preferably low visibility and medical. A lone person with a long rifle and overt body armor is going to be perceived as either a threat or a target of opportunity.

An 18 inch 556 is nice, but a 12.5 or 14.5” with a suppressor is more practical.

A bag gun, something that lets me carry a long gun in a lower visibility package is probably more useful than a DMR. A 10.5” with a law folder or something like an SIG MCX or Rattler.


If you just want an AR 10 because they are cool, get one. If you’re not already heavily invested in 308 consider one in 6.5 Creedmoor. Just be realistic about what it is and what it is not.

[Joe in PNG]

All the mindset in the world doesn’t change the fact that being solo and over 40 in any sort of combat are huge disadvantages.
The idea of making it as LAMOE (The last man on earth.) in the event of a major disaster is generally unrealistic.
As is the idea that you’re going to be picking off threats at extended ranges like the second coming of Simo Häyhä or some Jeff Cooper scout rifle fantasy.
The idea that you’re gonna be although identify threats at extended ranges in the scenario you cited is unrealistic.
There’s a strong case for “bugging in” and being as low visibility as possible.

Should the SHTF/EOTWAWKI happen, social connections will be far more important than firepower. Having some sort of association with a local community for mutual aid & defense will be more of an asset than what caliber you have in your gun.

[03RN]

My thoughts are influenced by John "Mountain Guerrilla" Mosby who is homesteading somewhere in Wyoming: I'd go for a 308.

Per John's Patreon and

Quoted from: Building the Survival Rifle: A Retrospective Update Jul 14, 2023

I agree that the 556 is a poor choice for hunting large game but that's not what the op was asking about.

[Jay585]

I agree that the 556 is a poor choice for hunting large game but that's not what the op was asking about.

Reading the whole article, John goes on to talk about pest control on his ranch/farm, not hunting. I'd quote more of it, but I'm not certain it's appropriate. He does mention having to shoot a fox (it was raiding his feed bin or something like that) 3 times with a 5.56, even though the first two hits were in the vitals (according to him).

And since OP said "Live in a Rual area open space westside farmland not in use." this information seemed applicable to his surroundings.

[Navin Johnson]

My thoughts are influenced by John "Mountain Guerrilla" Mosby who is homesteading somewhere in Wyoming: I'd go for a 308.

Per John's Patreon and

Quoted from: Building the Survival Rifle: A Retrospective Update Jul 14, 2023

If you read the article, the ammunition he was using in the 556 was not appropriate for medium size game. Ammunition selection for a small caliber is certainly more critical than a larger caliber.

Almost seems like he was looking for evidence to support a conclusion.

[Joe in PNG]

And as has been noted, the AR-10 platform isn't the most reliable thing in the world, and tends to be a bit proprietary in parts. One isn't going to be ordering new parts from Brownells after the SHTF, and probably won't be able to get them from the neighbors either.

As noted, if one needs a gun to shoot the bigger bullets after TEOTWAWKI, a boltie would be the better pick.