SHTF AR 10 or AR 15?

[SwampDweller]

Yes, and the KAC SR-25s.

KAC /LMT/ HK large frames are better than other AR-10s but there is no free lunch. None are as reliable/durable as their 5.56 equivalents.

Then if someone wants a reliable and durable .308 semi auto (reliable and durable on par with a 5.56 AR), what are the options?

What about bigger bore cartridges in AR15s such as .300 BLK (not that that’s big bore), .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, etc?

[RevolverRob]

Then if someone wants a reliable and durable .308 semi auto (reliable and durable on par with a 5.56 AR), what are the options?

FAL
SCAR
M1A
M1 Garand

What about bigger bore cartridges in AR15s such as .300 BLK (not that that’s big bore), .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, etc?

Very different beasts. All of those cartridges are ~200y maximum.

.300BO is fairly reliable - it is merely 5.56 with the neck and shoulder cut off and then reformed. Adjustable gas block is necessary. It works better with pistol-length gas systems. Or best in a piston-driven gun (Sig MCX). It is just as durable as 5.56 guns, maybe a bit more so, since the peak pressure is slightly lower.

.458 SOCOM and .450BM reliability is mixed. .458 SOCOM is probably the better of the two. Durability? Who knows. No one can afford to shoot them enough to break them, even if you reload, because you really can't form the brass from a parent cartridge.

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This boils down to what you're trying to accomplish with a rifle. As is, there is zero compelling reason to choose a .308 gun unless you have a lot of .308 on hand. If you don't reload I wouldn't bother with any autoloading rifle not chambered in 5.56.

[Failure2Stop]

I see many saying that .308 ARs are not as reliable/durable as 5.56 ones. Does this also apply to ones like the LMT MWS and HK MR762?

LMT and HK do make reliable, durable large-frame ARs.
I would add Geissele to that list as well.
Of course, the place I work at is known for pretty good large-frame rifles.

As mentioned, 5.56 rifles to have an advantage in reduced parts impact wear as compared to large frame, and good barrels will tend to last longer in 5.56 when compared to .308 and even more so compared to .260/6.5.

[shane45]

Anecdotal. My MWS was very reliable. My SR25 EMC has been extremely reliable. No malfs ever for either but I give higher marks to my SR25 because I have run it VERY VERY dirty and still had no issues at all. I have no experience with the HK. So about durability, I think its safe to assume the 308 may not last as long as a 5.56. But just how long do you need it to last during the apocalypse when ammo is scarce?

[RevolverRob]

But just how long do you need it to last during the apocalypse when ammo is scarce?

Long enough for me to find a Twinkie.

[DDTSGM]

I've noticed something in my many years of various SHTF & post-apocalyptic media- it appears should that happen, all the world's artillery will apparently magically vanish.

Of course, the scenario that a bandit band of former redlegs giving you 10 minutes to surrender your compound or big booms will occur doesn't readily lend itself to the classic rifle caliber wars.

There are a lot more gunfight fantasies than survival realities in this type of discussion.

So you mean my plan to save the town by skillfully deploying with my 100 mags artfully attached to my carrier and my dump pouch made of an old seabag is far fetched? Say it ain't so.

So about durability, I think its safe to assume the 308 may not last as long as a 5.56. But just how long do you need it to last during the apocalypse when ammo is scarce?

Long enough for me to find a Twinkie.

In my case, long enough to find a Mormon family and 'talk' them out of their food cache. I only JOKINGLY mention that because someone donated a literal pallet of cases of #10 cans of beans, rice, flour, etc. all packaged and labeled as being from 'The Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints' to our food bank. Pretty nice donation, not sure where it came from as I didn't take it in, or ask anyone about it. Also, I checked and these prices seem pretty reasonable assuming good quality:

https://store.churchofjesuschrist.or...e/5637160355.c

Sorry, off-topic ended.

[HCM]

Then if someone wants a reliable and durable .308 semi auto (reliable and durable on par with a 5.56 AR), what are the options?

What about bigger bore cartridges in AR15s such as .300 BLK (not that that’s big bore), .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, etc?

None. They are what they are. Part of this is physics. Bigger heavier parts. Bigger heavier rounds etc

Unless someone is giving you free .308 it's an unrealistic concern. And if you understand and can differentiate "fighting with a gun" vs "shooting" the popularity and success of intermediate caliber weapons with higher capacity/ rates of fire is clear.

The 5.56 AR has a 60-year learning curve of improvements to the guns, magazines and ammunition. Over 8 million AR/M16/M4 variants have been produced. The only comparable system is the AK's.

None of the "other" AR calibers have anywhere near the "learning curve" or refinement of AR's in 5.56.

There is a lot of romantic nonsense about older, obsolescent 7.62 platforms like the Garand, M14, FAL, G3, etc - all come from an era when round counts, especially in training were much lower. Most are inferior to a modern AR-10 like the LMT or 417.

In a SHTF scenario you are going to die from drinking bad water or an infected cut before you have to wear football armor and make a machete out of a lawn mower blade and duct tape because your LMT MWS failed.

[Shotgun]

In a SHTF scenario you are going to die from drinking bad water or an infected cut before you have to wear football armor and make a machete out of a lawn mower blade and duct tape because your LMT MWS failed.

Ya, well, that's not near as much fun to think about as a potential new AR 10 or AR 15. I suspect that money for a new rifle is burning a much bigger hole in Mitchum's pocket than anything related to beans or band-aids.

[Robert Mitchum]

I am sticking to 556.
Just ordered a Daniel Defense MK12 and a bunch more Black Hills 77Gr Otm.
DDM4V7
DDM4V7SLW
Super Duty MOD1 Rifle, 16"
I should be ok with what I now have rather than getting into another caliber.

I am also going to take a few COURSES to go along with my own range training.
The big thing is going to enjoy the summer shooting and relaxing!

[Joe in PNG]

I'd also consider some black powder guns and the whole collection of Foxfire books.