45 ACP +P 165 gr Woodsman

[MolonLabe416]

Anyone have thoughts on this ammo?

https://g9defense.com/45-acp-p-165-gr-woodsman/

“ When there is a need for protection against anything that can be found in the wilderness, the Woodsman answers the call. It provides deep, straight penetration with the power to overcome thick hides and heavy bones making it an ideal handgun hunting choice. It is precision machined from solid copper and therefore displays fantastic accuracy and remarkable dependability in terminal performance. It not only penetrates deep, it creates a phenomenal cavitation. Third party testing has proven the Woodsman design to be the largest wound cavity producing munition in handgun calibers due to its unique and patented tip design. The Woodsman exhibits the ‘works on contact’ performance that G9 has become known for. G9 does not recommend this munition for everyday carry due to the impressive depth of penetration.”

[camel]

Bullet looks like a wide flat nose with extra fancy spire point that won’t really do anything.

[Velo Dog]

The 9x19mm version seems to perform as advertised.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bau4aPKwgg

[GJM]

Not that sectional density is everything, but doesn't the 124 G9 load have better sectional density than the 165 grain .45 G9 load?

[Velo Dog]

The 145 grain G9 Woodsman in 10mm Auto seems to penetrate about as well as any other dangerous game load in that cartridge.

[Shawn Dodson]

Well... the marketing hype uses the term "wound cavity," which intentionally misleads folks into believing the temporary cavity damages soft tissues.

Some advice: whenever a bullet manufacturer uses the terms "wound cavity" or "wound channel," consider it a clue they don't know what they're doing and their ammo is crap.

[Velo Dog]

Not that sectional density is everything, but doesn't the 124 G9 load have better sectional density than the 165 grain .45 G9 load?

Yes. The 124 grain 9mm G9 Woodsman also has greater sectional density than the 145 grain 10mm loading.


Solid Copper Woodsman Specifications: 9 mm 40 S&W 45 ACP 10 mm
Weight (grains) 124 130 165 145
Muzzle Velocity (FPS) 1200 1300 1230 1450
Muzzle Energy (ft-lb) 396 488 554 677
Penetration in Ballistic Gel (in) 34 36+ 36 42+

[Velo Dog]

Well... the marketing hype uses the term "wound cavity," which intentionally misleads folks into believing the temporary cavity damages soft tissues.

Some advice: whenever a bullet manufacturer uses the terms "wound cavity" or "wound channel," consider it a clue they don't know what they're doing and their ammo is crap.

Right or wrong, those terms are pervasive in the ammunition industry.

https://www.speer.com/speer-stories/metal-heads.html

"Terminal Performance
At its core, carry ammunition needs to quickly stop an attacker, which requires the bullet to reach and destroy vital organs and as much tissue as possible in route. An expanding bullet does this by creating a larger wound cavity than the original bullet diameter, as well as by transferring its energy to the surrounding tissue.

A TMJ round, however, doesn’t expand at all, creating an extremely small wound channel, causing minimal tissue damage, and transferring little of its energy in the process—and handgun bullets already carry almost no energy compared to their rifle counterparts."

[Shawn Dodson]

Right or wrong, those terms are pervasive in the ammunition industry.

https://www.speer.com/speer-stories/metal-heads.html

"Terminal Performance
At its core, carry ammunition needs to quickly stop an attacker, which requires the bullet to reach and destroy vital organs and as much tissue as possible in route. An expanding bullet does this by creating a larger wound cavity than the original bullet diameter, as well as by transferring its energy to the surrounding tissue.

A TMJ round, however, doesn’t expand at all, creating an extremely small wound channel, causing minimal tissue damage, and transferring little of its energy in the process—and handgun bullets already carry almost no energy compared to their rifle counterparts."

Because their audience is largely uninformed, so they pander to them. In so doing, they perpetuate mythology.

"Wound cavity" matters little.

What you hit is more important than what you hit with. Your bullet has to crush a hole in a vital structure to be effective.

What are the vital structures? Fackler identified them in 1987:

"Aggressive action by a determined adversary can be stopped reliably and immediately using a handgun only by a shot that disrupts the brain or upper spinal cord. Even the most disruptive heart wound cannot be relied upon to prevent aggression before 10 to 15 seconds has elapsed.

"Given this limitation, massive bleeding from holes in the heart or major blood vessels in the torso causing circulatory collapse is the fastest and only other reliable mechanism available to the handgun user."

--Martin L. Fackler, M.D., WOUND BALLISTIC WORKSHOP; FBI ACADEMY; September 15 - 17, 1987; "9MM VS .45 AUTO"

[farscott]

I see that the Woodsman bullet is copper, which suggests the bullet is hard enough to get through a heavy coat, a skull, and/or sternum. I am more likely to go with the Federal 240-grain "Solid Core" load which has a traditional truncated cone hard cast bullet covered with a polymer coating to reduce leading concerns. I trust Federal to put together a decent coated hard cast load based on my experience with the old "Cast Core" revolver loads in .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum and experience with the Syntech coating on Federal's rimfire offerings.

https://www.federalpremium.com/handg...1-P45SHC1.html