Why Was Hip-Shooting a Thing?

[okie john]

When I was a very young boy, I got to see Bill Jordan run through his standard demo. He was hitting aspirin tablets with wax bullets out of a K-frame S&W at about 15' from the hip at what seemed like insane speeds. I think there are videos of it online.

Later, I read his book, No Second Place Winner, plus Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting by Ed McGivern, Kill or Get Killed by Rex Applegate, and pretty much every word that Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton ever wrote. Then I burned up a lot of ammo trying to duplicate their feats.

It's possible to get hits from the hip but I'm not sure that the juice is worth the squeeze.


Okie John

[HCM]

When I was a very young boy, I got to see Bill Jordan run through his standard demo. He was hitting aspirin tablets with wax bullets out of a K-frame S&W at about 15' from the hip at what seemed like insane speeds. I think there are videos of it online.

Later, I read his book, No Second Place Winner, plus Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting by Ed McGivern, Kill or Get Killed by Rex Applegate, and pretty much every word that Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton ever wrote. Then I burned up a lot of ammo trying to duplicate their feats.

It's possible to get hits from the hip but I'm not sure that the juice is worth the squeeze.


Okie John

It’s possible to get hits from the hip with a lot of practice when you and the target are standing still. But it’s a carnival trick.

Induce movement by the target or the shooter and things will fall apart real quick.

[Outpost75]

The Close Combat Files of Col. Rex Applegate include the firearms training syllabus used by the Military Intelligence Training Center at Camp Ritchie, MD during WW2 for the OSS. These basics were virtually unchanged through the Vietnam era at Ft. Hollabird for the Intelligence Officer Basic Course.

[Dog Face Gremlin]

Remember shooting with LE friends back in the mid 70's who use to practice hip shooting........

[DDTSGM]

Remember shooting with LE friends back in the mid 70's who use to practice hip shooting........

Back in the 70's I think most agencies were still shooting one hand hip as the close in part of their qual course. Often on the 'sundial timed' qual courses you'd see officers draw, look down at their revolver, make a stance change and then shoot - totally realistic.

Then there was the notion of 'point shoulder' which when I went through the academy was shot at ten yards with the revolver thrust straight out from the shoulders, well below eye level. Even as a recruit going through the academy I thought that was nuts, bring the damn thing to eye level.

And don't forget to drop the brass at your feet so they can recreate where you shot from. Actually we had wooden boxes placed on the ground in front of us to drop the brass into.

Those were the days.

[Norville]

I almost hate to say it, but there are videos on YT of Taran Butler running plate racks from the hip - damn fast and seldom misses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrIgLt1S86w

[Malamute]

I almost hate to say it, but there are videos on YT of Taran Butler running plate racks from the hip - damn fast and seldom misses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrIgLt1S86w

Ive seen this video, and the longer version. Theres two take-aways that come to mind, Yes, its quite possible to get very good at "hip shooting" with extensive practice, the other, its not necessarily faster overall than sighted.

[Rex G]

I almost hate to say it, but there are videos on YT of Taran Butler running plate racks from the hip - damn fast and seldom misses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrIgLt1S86w

Plate racks. Plates conveniently situated at a consistent height. Plates situated a consistent distance apart. Plates that do not dive to prone, drop to kneeling, side-step, etc. Just sayin’.

No, I would not want either of these gentlemen to be shootin’ at me, that is not the point.

When one is hip-shootin’, adding inconsistent elevation, alone, to the equation, is a beech.

To be clear, great feats of arms have been accomplished, by folks using unsighted fire, to include shots fired “from the hip.” My educated guess, however, is that two-handed sighted fire is more flexible, with targets that are not regularly-spaced and nicely compliant.

[Malamute]

Plate racks. Plates conveniently situated at a consistent height. Plates situated a consistent distance apart. Plates that do not dive to prone, drop to kneeling, side-step, etc. Just sayin’.

No, I would not want either of these gentlemen to be shootin’ at me, that is not the point.

When one is hip-shootin’, adding inconsistent elevation, alone, to the equation, is a beech.

To be clear, great feats of arms have been accomplished, by folks using unsighted fire, to include shots fired “from the hip.” My educated guess, however, is that two-handed sighted fire is more flexible, with targets that are not regularly-spaced and nicely compliant.

In the case of Taran Butler, that doesnt appear to be an issue, he seems able to hit about anything he wants to distances further than spitting distance, and evenly placed targets arent a factor. Theres longer versions of this meet-up between he and Vogel. Its pretty close between them as to ability on a variety of targets. Some may see that and feel its a vindication of point/hip shooting, but I think the lesson is that regardless of how good he or some others may be, its still not any particular advantage. Similar results, but not an advantage. Id add that most people are unlikely to have a higher level of eye-hand coordination required to do that. I believe such feats are also more perishable than higher levels of aimed shooting.

I would also suggest that evenly spaced targets can be a factor in many aimed shooting shooters, put them in other situations and their time and hits would go down. One should shoot a variety of things to be a well rounded shooter. I liked running rabbits and squirrel hunting with pistols for a challenge.

In the case of some historical uses as mentioned, its been brought up in previous discussions that the "point shooting" trained used in some places/times had much to do with poor sights, low light, close quarters, and not a lot of time and training ammo to get the officers up to higher levels. It served a purpose at the time and place, but isnt necessarily a universally applicable method in todays uses.

[Totem Polar]

https://www.efootage.com/videos/7988...-kill-training

https://content.time.com/time/subscr...899618,00.html

https://militarythoughts.blogspot.co...uick-kill.html

https://www.defensivecarry.com/threa...s-army.377473/

My dad’s best friend was trained this way, and he had *considerable* experience shooting people in Vietnam and select other SEA places. He was quite good with the technique.