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Thread: Drills and Tests to Assess Pistol Shootability

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tensaw View Post
    I hope this hasn't been done before, but it's ya'll's fault anyway with threads touting both the Macro and Gen 5 G26.

    I am trying diligently to pare things down to one carry pistol. I would really love to get to a place where I am carrying the same pistol (almost) all the time regardless of the setting. My goal is to identify the pistol that gives me the best performance in *my* hands (and/or understand where a particular pistol gives up some performance in comparison to others). Given that the intent is for this pistol will be a do-all defensive rig, I would like to be able to test performance metrics that cover both speed and accuracy, as well as the combination of the two.

    So the question is what are some drills, tests, and assessments that can be run to objectively quantify performance across various pistols? The F.A.S.T. comes to mind, but surely there are others. If it matters, the focus for the use case is exclusively defensive shooting (as opposed to gaming or anything else). In other words, I'm trying to identify the pistol that I shoot best in any scenario from an attempted mugging/carjacking in the Walmart parking lot, to putting one across the bow of a 200 pound rottie charging across the lawn (or bear charging down the trail if that makes you feel better). It would be super if we could start to get a pretty good assessment with 50 - 100 rounds of ammo per pistol. That's it. Let me have it! TIA.

    Not to be a downer, but within a similar class of pistols (for example, a G19 to an M&P to a Sig 320 to a Walther PDP to a Canik Rival to a Staccato to a CZ P10 etc), a good shooter is not going to have and *should not have* any statistically significant difference in their shooting, and any variation you see in scores, is likely either caused by outliers that you won't overcome in 50-100 rounds per pistol, or you just not having put enough time in to develop subconscious gun handling skills or a natural index.

    Caveat: If you're trying to compare performance across different classes of pistols, i.e. a full size gun with a red dot vs. a G19 with irons vs. a G43x/G48 vs. a G43 vs. a 5 shot revolver, and figure out how small/convenient of a pistol you can carry while being happy with your performance, this could be beneficial.

  2. #22
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    Aug 2017
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    Central Texas
    Old Bakersfield qual. It’s only 10 rounds and quick. Its static and a single target but I think it gives me the information I need for answering the core question of speed and accuracy from concealed at varied ranges when comparing platforms.

  3. #23
    I would not do anything that involved reloads if I was testing two different platforms.

    You're always going to do better with the platform you have shot more, so keep that in mind.

    I'd do doubles to see how it tracks at speed.
    "Shooting is 90% mental. The rest is in your head." -Nils

  4. #24
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    Jan 2015
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    OKC
    Quote Originally Posted by 1Rangemaster View Post
    Looking back decades, Cooper wrote about a “Standard Controllability Test, or SCT”. It went something like this: shooter at 25 yards. On signal, “aim in” and fire 5 rounds of “full power” ammo at a 10 inch circle at 25 yards. I’m quoting him from memory: “If all 5 rounds impact in the circle in time, that pistol with that load is controllable by that shooter”(yikes!). Various written accounts suggest multiple successful runs for confirmation. Duty/carry ammo is expensive, so I’d lean towards 4 of 5 runs as an evaluation.
    A few caveats, if you will: 1) there is no mention (as I recall) of running it cold; cold runs show a lot about where the operator is at with the piece and is a “snapshot” of competency, IMHO. 2)Cooper was heavily involved with the Southwest Combat Pistol League and the 1911in .45acp at the time. So, my interpretation is that this was usually run unconcealed, out of a range holster. 3)the art and science of “pistol craft “ has advanced, and the gear more so. And, as said elsewhere, businesses want/need to make money, so that drives some aspects.
    Note I’m a confessed Glock fan and drill/qual nerd. I’d respectfully suggest the following to the OP:
    1)with a nod to @GJM, the OP stated he shot Glocks for years. I think that suggests the 26 is the pick, possibly running mags w/a “+” baseplate.
    2)If the OP has convinced himself he has to compare, run each candidate piece, cold, from personal concealment, on separate days with whatever ammo that will be carried.
    3)With respect to noted teachers like Cooper and Givens, I’d say, if the OP must, run the SCT as above and Givens Baseline Assessment Drill, as stipulated an above.
    And, a little tongue-in-cheek, if I was pretty sure there was a gunfight in the future, I might:
    A)be somewhere else,
    B)have a carbine/rifle and/or shotgun at hand and
    C)try as hard as I could to have some other like minded and equipped friends around!
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    A local dude posted this. Yes,if he says he can do it, he can do it. He shoots .45 and .40.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    Not to be a downer, but within a similar class of pistols (for example, a G19 to an M&P to a Sig 320 to a Walther PDP to a Canik Rival to a Staccato to a CZ P10 etc), a good shooter is not going to have and *should not have* any statistically significant difference in their shooting, and any variation you see in scores, is likely either caused by outliers that you won't overcome in 50-100 rounds per pistol, or you just not having put enough time in to develop subconscious gun handling skills or a natural index.

    Caveat: If you're trying to compare performance across different classes of pistols, i.e. a full size gun with a red dot vs. a G19 with irons vs. a G43x/G48 vs. a G43 vs. a 5 shot revolver, and figure out how small/convenient of a pistol you can carry while being happy with your performance, this could be beneficial.
    I believe the point made in your caveat was actually one of the purposes behind the 5 Yard Roundup listed in the article Justin Dyal wrote to introduce his drill to the public. I think it’s a great drill for measuring how much performance ability you lose when going to a smaller gun from a larger one. Your duty gun is a P320 and you carry a P365XL or P365 off duty? Shoot a few runs of the Roundup with both and see where performance drops off.
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  6. #26
    Bill Drill
    BPD Drill
    Eastridge 2.5
    The Test
    Wizard Drill
    Federal Air Marshall Drill

  7. #27
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    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Heading for the hills
    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    Caveat: If you're trying to compare performance across different classes of pistols, i.e. a full size gun with a red dot vs. a G19 with irons vs. a G43x/G48 vs. a G43 vs. a 5 shot revolver, and figure out how small/convenient of a pistol you can carry while being happy with your performance, this could be beneficial.
    Yup, this right here is, in fact, precisely one of my goals. I know I work harder to shoot the 43X "well"; but I'm not sure exactly how much more I suck with it as compared to a larger pistol. And then there is the optic sitting on top of the PDP (my only pistol with an optic), and that is another variable as well. Despite my best intentions, I end up kicking around with the 43X fairly often (the PDP/509T is quite a chunky mother to tote around in comparison). Also have a Gen4 G26 in the mix (typically carried with a sleeved G19 mag). I think I mentioned upthread that I was eyeballing a Macro to purchase, and it is, by all accounts, a very shootable gun - but I've thrown a lot of hardware money at what is mostly a software (skill) problem and I thought it might be a good idea to quantify where I'm at with what I have on hand before chasing after the next shiny thing. I may still go after the next shiny thing, but at least I will have some idea if I gained any ground with it.

    If it turns out that the hardware ends up being largely un-relevant (as mentioned by GJM and MickAK) I will count that as a happy accident. Too their point,... if, as I suspect, I suck significantly more with the 43X, then I know I need to either put in the work to get better if I'm gonna keep carrying that, or maybe that will fuel the chase for the Macro.
    Last edited by Tensaw; 03-25-2024 at 08:59 PM.
    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
    No one is coming. It is up to us.

  8. #28
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    Jun 2014
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    Heading for the hills
    Quote Originally Posted by G19Fan View Post
    Bill Drill
    BPD Drill
    Eastridge 2.5
    The Test
    Wizard Drill
    Federal Air Marshall Drill
    Do you mean the (original) Air Marshal qual course?
    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
    No one is coming. It is up to us.

  9. #29
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    Heading for the hills
    Update: I've gather up several of the drills mentioned here and I think I can get some pretty good data points with less than a box of ammo per gun. That said, I have thought about just starting at 3 yards and then working back to 5, 7, 10, 15, and 25 and doing something like: Draw and fire one; Draw and fire three; Bill Drill at each distance and see how that shakes out. That's one 50 round box of ammo per pistol. It does leave out one handed shooting though.
    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
    No one is coming. It is up to us.

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