Agencies dropping Stacatto?

[Tokarev]

Series 80 is not compatible with any 1911/2011 RDS mounting system. If drop thing is something that STI needs to fx now and they wish to remain optic-capable, their only option is titanium pins, with a potential compromise in ignition reliability.
I'm kinda amused at all these efforts to push a 100+ year old design into 21st century duty role despite its limitations, but I'd better stay in my lane.

M&Ps had the firing pin block exposed in the slide when the rear sight was removed. Other than the possibility of losing or bending the spring during detailed disassembly did this cause problems? I imagine the issue was most often a problem to the uninitiated much like taking an M16 pistol grip off without proper instruction. An easy deal if you've done it before but also a sure path to losing the selector detent your first time.

Staccato can probably engineer some S80 parts that ride against the bottom of the optic plate easily enough. It will just have to be well known that parts may be lost easily.

SIG just breathed a sigh of relief. Finally something for forums to fret about and take some heat off the 320....

[emoji2]

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[Tokarev]

Of various problems that may result from dropping a 2011, I'd guess this is pretty likely.

https://john1911.com/dropped-staccato-breaks/

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[Tokarev]

I would suspect that a properly working trigger system would find the half cock notch catching the hammer before firing.

Langdon did a test drooping a cocked 92 and the half cock notch prevented ignition in his test.

I'd say that's 99% true. But what about a 1911 pattern with the hammer hooks shaved and sear cut to a knife edge? Combined with aggressively bent sear spring?

People say the 1911 trigger is unparalleled and it really kind of is. But then again a Glock or whatever with a 5# trigger is also decent. Certainly decent enough to do anything other than get .14 splits to post on Instaface.

Edit--not saying the failure that's the topic of the thread was caused by some sort of highly modified trigger or due to a pinned grip safety, etc. But much of this stuff has been well known in the 1911 world for a long time. People coming to the platform from something else may be oblivious that they are playing with fire here by wanting two pound triggers and pinned grip safeties etc.

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[Depmur]

Lots of valid points in this conversation so far. I’ve carried a 1911 on duty since 2003, first was a SA TRP and then a Wilson CQB. The past 7 years I’ve carried either a Wilson ULCC or a Nighthawk Talon 2, I change all springs, recoil, mainspring, firing pin and the plunger tube spring annually. The FP and recoil spring might get changed more often depending on use. I purchased a C2 with plans of eventually transitioning to it with a dot once it is vetted, I’m really liking the dot. I might reach out to Stacatto next week and see if they are addressing this drop test and if they have plans for it.

[TheNewbie]

I wish I had the money to conduct more tests on various 1911s. Series 80, Swartz, best drop safe setup for a “Series 70”.

[Tokarev]

I wish I had the money to conduct more tests on various 1911s. Series 80, Swartz, best drop safe setup for a “Series 70”.

Turkish guns are your friend?

Going off memory we have Colt and Para using the S80. I think Taurus does as well? Kimber uses the Swartz. I don't think anyone else is using an active block. They either do nothing (Staccato) or use a light pin and heavy spring.

Also going off memory I think the SAAMI drop test is from five or six feet and done on a six sided cube. Guns are dropped straight down on all six sides of the cube. SIG has said that the original 320 is "drop safe" and it probably is per the SAAMI test. Too bad nobody in World history has even dropped a gun perfectly flat onto an equally perfect flat surface.

Meanwhile the AR15 variant being carried by whichever Colorado department is also not "drop safe." These will also fire if dropped on the muzzle from something like 12 feet. HK and I think SIG are using an actual locked firing pin that's released by the hammer to help pass higher than SAAMI tests. I think HK is doing this to pass some European standard. SIG too probably.

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[YVK]

Dumb question, a Stacatto is a series 70, not an 80?

I believe that all 2011s are series 70.

Staccato can probably engineer some S80 parts that ride against the bottom of the optic plate easily enough. It will just have to be well known that parts may be lost easily.

I had a casual conversation about this with Ned Christiansen. Ned is my go to person about all things 1911, he built my carry 1911 and in a process converted a series 70 into 80 on my request (we didnt want to look for another base gun). He said that making a 2011 with series 80 parts should not be probllem. As far as optics, plate's pocket will cut into FP block's slot and plate would have to work as a roof of the fpb slot. Not an insurmountable task but it would add some complexity to plate's design.

[TheNewbie]

Turkish guns are your friend?

Going off memory we have Colt and Para using the S80. I think Taurus does as well? Kimber uses the Swartz. I don't think anyone else is using an active block. They either do nothing (Staccato) or use a light pin and heavy spring.

Also going off memory I think the SAAMI drop test is from five or six feet and done on a six sided cube. Guns are dropped straight down on all six sides of the cube. SIG has said that the original 320 is "drop safe" and it probably is per the SAAMI test. Too bad nobody in World history has even dropped a gun perfectly flat onto an equally perfect flat surface.

Meanwhile the AR15 variant being carried by whichever Colorado department is also not "drop safe." These will also fire if dropped on the muzzle from something like 12 feet. HK and I think SIG are using an actual locked firing pin that's released by the hammer to help pass higher than SAAMI tests. I think HK is doing this to pass some European standard. SIG too probably.

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Auto Ordnance are series 80 I think. No idea where they are made, or how their quality is.


There are Turkish guns for $299 out there. Crazy.

[Tokarev]

I believe that all 2011s are series 70.



I had a casual conversation about this with Ned Christiansen. Ned is my go to person about all things 1911, he built my carry 1911 and in a process converted a series 70 into 80 on my request (we didnt want to look for another base gun). He said that making a 2011 with series 80 parts should not be probllem. As far as optics, plate's pocket will cut into FP block's slot and plate would have to work as a roof of the fpb slot. Not an insurmountable task but it would add some complexity to plate's design.

Ned is good people. I haven't seen or talked to him now in several years. I hope he's doing well.

Speaking of Ned didn't he do some Swartz testing awhile back? Google doesn't bring anything up but I might be entering the right key words.

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[TheNewbie]

Ned is good people. I haven't seen or talked to him now in several years. I hope he's doing well.

Speaking of Ned didn't he do some Swartz testing awhile back? Google doesn't bring anything up but I might be entering the right key words.

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This?

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....es-be-informed