M855A1 Accuracy and Velocity

[kwb377]

Why/how is this important?

He was also that guy in school that reminded the teacher she forgot to assign homework.

[WobblyPossum]

Why/how is this important?

I think @jetfire is implying that possession of stolen government property is a crime.

[jh9]

You’ll notice that none of that is commercially packed and is often still in stripper clips. While the ATF hasn’t classified M855A1 as armor piercing, it has also not been made available for commercial sale. So while it’s certainly legal to own and possess, at some point most, if not all of the M855A1 that’s on gunbroker was diverted from its legitimate destination.

Sgammo had a considerable amount of Lake City .50 APIT a year or two ago. Most of it sold as loose ammo with no commercial packaging.

If m855a1 isn't generally available but if it's also not explicitly illegal then what are the actual constraints on whoever's operating Lake City this week from selling 'small' quantities to some guy that knows a guy? Doesn't seem like it has to fall off a truck to wind up on the commercial market.

[TGS]

He was also that guy in school that reminded the teacher she forgot to assign homework.

Now that was funny...

I think @jetfire is implying that possession of stolen government property is a crime.

And as many funny comments we can make in this thread, this is the crux of the issue. I wouldn't hesitate to take M855A1 off another government employee just the same as I've shared our issued ammo with other government gun-toters for practice (which is innocuous and generally acceptable as being in the scope/performance of our duties), but where you get in trouble is selling shit for personal gain. Not so much the buyer as the seller, but best to not get wrapped up in it.

I'd steer clear of buying any M855A1, personally. Now that Army CID is professionalizing and will undoubtedly look into ammo sales of stolen USG munitions which seem to be gathering a not- insignificant market presence, I'd rather not get a knock on the door from them one day asking to surrender the stolen goods as evidence to be used in the prosecution of Specialist Schmuckatelli.

Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is checking, after all. You shouldn't need an active threat of prosecution to avoid buying stuff from a fence.

[TGS]

Sgammo had a considerable amount of Lake City .50 APIT a year or two ago. Most of it sold as loose ammo with no commercial packaging.

If m855a1 isn't generally available but if it's also not explicitly illegal then what are the actual constraints on whoever's operating Lake City this week from selling 'small' quantities to some guy that knows a guy? Doesn't seem like it has to fall off a truck to wind up on the commercial market.

Because it's reasonably sure to be stolen.

And if you have a reasonable likelihood that something is stolen, you shouldn't buy it.

[Unobtanium]

Now that was funny...



And as many funny comments we can make in this thread, this is the crux of the issue. I wouldn't hesitate to take M855A1 off another government employee just the same as I've shared our issued ammo with other government gun-toters for practice (which is innocuous and generally acceptable as being in the scope/performance of our duties), but where you get in trouble is selling shit for personal gain. Not so much the buyer as the seller, but best to not get wrapped up in it.

I'd steer clear of buying any M855A1, personally. Now that Army CID is professionalizing and will undoubtedly look into ammo sales of stolen USG munitions which seem to be gathering a not- insignificant market presence, I'd rather not get a knock on the door from them one day asking to surrender the stolen goods as evidence to be used in the prosecution of Specialist Schmuckatelli.

Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is checking, after all. You shouldn't need an active threat of prosecution to avoid buying stuff from a fence.

The real crime is that if you buy it, you've now paid for it at least twice.

[jh9]

Because it's reasonably sure to be stolen.

And if you have a reasonable likelihood that something is stolen, you shouldn't buy it.

I don't follow. The sgammo .50 APIT seemed legitimate. It's not m855a1 but it's also one of those "I didn't realize Lake City sold that to anyone other than the fed" things. One of the gunbroker links was for pulldown m855a1 bullets only and referenced some ATK contract. As someone with no inside baseball how do I come to the "reasonably sure to be stolen" conclusion?

[TGS]

I don't follow. The sgammo .50 APIT seemed legitimate. It's not m855a1 but it's also one of those "I didn't realize Lake City sold that to anyone other than the fed" things. One of the gunbroker links was for pulldown m855a1 bullets only and referenced some ATK contract. As someone with no inside baseball how do I come to the "reasonably sure to be stolen" conclusion?

And that'd make a lot more sense if M855A1 was being sold in large quantities, in factory packaging, by a known distributor like SGAmmo like the .50 APIT.

But it's not. It's being sold by random people on GunBroker, most in close proximity to military bases, in quantities not reflective of a commercial distribution, and not in factory packaging...sometimes even just sold as component projectiles which were obviously pulled from a cartridge. All indicative of fencing, with literally no indication or claim that it was procured through commercial channels.

If you want to find a reason to convince yourself instead of just coming to terms with the obvious, knock yourself out.

[TGS]

Double

[jh9]

If you want to find a reason to convince yourself instead of just coming to terms with the obvious, knock yourself out.

Purely academic for me.

10 years ago when the stuff was new seeing it on the open market probably meant that was somebody's Charger payment for the month. In 2023 I'm legitimately surprised it isn't like the APIT and LC isn't above-board selling smaller quantities to outlets like sgammo in some sort of brother-in-law deal. It is what it is, I guess.