Current Threats You Should Be Avoiding-Gorillafritz

[Zincwarrior]

I am confused. The gyst of that in less angry language was what I was taught a decade ago in CHL class.

Make sure you and your family/friends don’t get shot. That’s it. End of lesson.

This, exactly. Running away (or my case waddling away) is your best option.

Also the Don't Do Stupid rules cited that ASP teachers are excellent for a whole lot of things, not just personal safety from violence.

[BillSWPA]

As others pointed out there is a big difference between an active shooter and a couple of rival gangs or rival drug dealers shooting at each other. In a situation where two people or two groups are shooting at each other, how am I supposed to determine which, if any, are the good guys? Third party situations are not always as they appear.

There is also a huge difference between an active shooting unfolding right in front of me and an active shooting unfolding well away from me in the local shopping mall. I would absolutely draw and shoot with a shooting unfolding directly in front of me, preferably while shoving my family towards cover and creating distance between me and them while I seek cover.

If they see that I have family with me, is the shooter going to try to shoot one of them to hinder my ability to defend against the shooter?

If I run towards the shooting occurring elsewhere, I do not know if it is an active shooter or a shootout between rival gangs. I do not know how many people are involved or how they are armed. I do know that helping people evacuate the immediate area, perhaps while positioning myself to cover their evacuation, removes a bunch of potential victims. If I can communicate with 911 in the process, I can let them know the location of the evacuation point so that they can concentrate their response on the likely location of the shooting.

If I go hunting for the threat, I need to avoid becoming exactly what the police are seeking: a man with a gun. Police response time in my area is about 5-10 min, and perhaps less for an active shooter or depending on where they are. How many people will the real shooter kill while the police are distracted ordering me to the ground and handcuffing me? Are they going to shoot me thinking I am the shooter?

If I investigate wit my gun holstered and concealed to avoid the above, I risk being behind the cure when I find the shooter.

My wife and I have discussed my helping third parties, and I have pointed out that doing so could change the trajectory of our entire family. She is okay with my helping in circumstances where there is a clear aggressor, a clear victim, and the likely harm to the victim is significant if I do not help.

[WobblyPossum]

It seems to me that Greg is talking about a very specific type of mass shooting involving indiscriminate retribution, often gang related, and BBI is talking about the more well known type of mass shooting as seen in malls, schools, etc?

I didn’t read that Greg was advocating for never acting. I think he is advocating for being very sure of the situation that you are reacting to. The concept of being willing to take a stand against unmitigated evil in the form of, say, an active shooter, and being unwilling to get involved in deadly tribal/monkey dance shit are not mutually exclusive. It’s going to take real perception to know the difference in the fog of the decades to come. JMO, OMMV, etc.

This is what I took from Greg’s post as well. I didn't understand him to be referring to what we think of as an active shooter, where someone is attempting to rapidly murder a group of people unrelated to any other kind of criminal activity. I’m with BBI in that if I’m present for that kind of active shooter, I don’t think I’d be able to live with myself if I didn’t try to intervene. There are worse things than dying out there and there are much worse ways to die than while trying to save a bunch of innocent people. Granted, my first priority is my loved ones so I’ll be getting them to safety first, but I’m going back afterwards. For the situations Greg is discussing, which fit the media definition of an active shooter but not what we think of an active shooter, I’m with him. I’m not jumping into the middle of a gunfight between gang members off duty. I’m going to get my people and myself the hell out of the area. If someone wants to stand between us and the exit, things change.

[FNFAN]

“And you don’t have to “be a good witness” either. If these jackasses get arrested, do you want them getting you and your family’s names, addresses, places of employment, and phone numbers? As soon as their court appointed attorney files for discovery, all of that information goes directly to them. Now you’ve become an active player in their game. And in that game, they don’t care about the same rules you do.”

If everyone adopts this attitude we might just as well close up shop on our justice system. Getting past the hurdles of defunding police, constraints on aggressive enforcement, bail “reform” and the ultraLeft funding of prosecutors is one thing. Without witnesses willing to testify and fulfill what used to be considered the “societal contract” of coming forward to give evidence against criminals, “society” and “community” are just quaint, archaic concepts. Sad to hear someone I had considered a pretty heads-up guy espousing this concept.

[BehindBlueI's]

Greg’s post said absolutely nothing about mass shootings/active shooters, as even a cursory read-through would have revealed.

Ah, so tell me how I misread this during my cursory read through:

My prediction is that these protests will continue to devolve and become more violent as the conflict between Israel and HAMAS continues. We might also start seeing pro-Israel counter protests as well. When these groups clash, you don’t want to be caught in the crossfire.

My biggest fear is that one of my readers will stumble into one of these protests or be in the area where one of the many mass shootings pops off. I worry that my readers will follow their training and draw their firearm to deal with a potential lethal force threat they perceive. That’s a losing proposition.

You off-duty cops and legally armed citizens have exactly one role in this situation: Make sure you and your family/friends don’t get shot. That’s it. End of lesson.

If somebody is mowing down Jews, fuck it, not my problem because:

Say it again with me: “Not your people, not your problem.”

Right? Because it's just young thugs fighting it out or something?

And you don’t have to “be a good witness” either. If these jackasses get arrested, do you want them getting you and your family’s names, addresses, places of employment, and phone numbers? As soon as their court appointed attorney files for discovery, all of that information goes directly to them. Now you’ve become an active player in their game. And in that game, they don’t care about the same rules you do.

Don't get involved. Don't try to help. Don't participate in the criminal justice system. You might get hurt.

This is generalized, not directed at any particular poster: This is bitch talk. If you're a bitch, that's ok, just own it. Don't talk your warrior/guardian bullshit. Next time you're in church, remind everyone what an idiot the dude nailed to the boards is because he sacrificed himself for assholes he never even met. Be consistent in your bitch mindset. Eli was a moron, maybe that was just some young thug gang banger and now his buddies know who he is. You think he had time to fully assess before acting? Go praise the Uvalde police. They did the right thing, by staying outside while children were murdered they lowered their personal risk. If nothing is more important than not getting shot at, that includes oaths and money. They were doing the smart thing.

Now, about the article, Greg knows fuck all about the shooting in Indy. Fuck. All. He has no idea the criminal histories, gang affiliations, motives, etc. He doesn't know if it's random or if one or more victims were targeted. "Possible gang association"? I'll pretend to wonder why that entered the conversation but I'm not going to play dumb. He knows what's in the media.

If this post is too harsh, so is a bunch of dead people you could have helped but were a bitch. Fuck your feelings.

[BehindBlueI's]

Thank you. Beat me to it. While I totally understand the hesitancy most people have with engaging in these crazy times....where our so called justice system in many jurisdictions seems hell-bent on increasing crime and disorder, the widespread adoption of this advice leads literally to the end of civilization. You think assholes and crooks are hard to deal with? Wait till the barbarian hordes are pillaging the countryside. At this rate, on this trajectory, we're only a few years from that.

This.

I will add that we've had an usually high number of police action shootings this year. Citizens are still shooting and killing bad guys at a 4:1 ratio over police actions so far this year.

[Robinson]

I just pray I have the courage and wisdom to do whatever needs doing if the time comes.

I mean, it has and I did -- but not with firearms involved. I'm not kidding when I say I pray about the above, and I'm not terribly religious.

[Hambo]

I think it's a lot more nuanced than anyone is making it out to be. Also, people tend to see potential shootings in the way they want them to unfold or end, versus the chaos of reality.

If @blues and I meet up for lunch one day, no wives, and shit jumps off, we may/probably will do something dramatically different than if one of was out with our wives.

Just because I'd rather not engage with some monkey dance shootout, I might have to, because Mrs Hambo won't be doing any sprints for the rest of her life. We have no choice but to fort up somewhere and see what cards we get dealt.

Regarding Gorillafritz, while he sometimes has interesting stuff in his info dump, he has also done some really boneheaded shit that makes me question his judgment about anything.

[Coyotesfan97]

“And you don’t have to “be a good witness” either. If these jackasses get arrested, do you want them getting you and your family’s names, addresses, places of employment, and phone numbers? As soon as their court appointed attorney files for discovery, all of that information goes directly to them. Now you’ve become an active player in their game. And in that game, they don’t care about the same rules you do.”

If everyone adopts this attitude we might just as well close up shop on our justice system. Getting past the hurdles of defunding police, constraints on aggressive enforcement, bail “reform” and the ultraLeft funding of prosecutors is one thing. Without witnesses willing to testify and fulfill what used to be considered the “societal contract” of coming forward to give evidence against criminals, “society” and “community” are just quaint, archaic concepts. Sad to hear someone I had considered a pretty heads-up guy espousing this concept.

You put into words what I was pondering.

[DDTSGM]

Ah, so tell me how I misread this during my cursory read through:



If somebody is mowing down Jews, fuck it, not my problem because: Right? Because it's just young thugs fighting it out or something?



Don't get involved. Don't try to help. Don't participate in the criminal justice system. You might get hurt.

This is generalized, not directed at any particular poster: This is bitch talk. If you're a bitch, that's ok, just own it. Don't talk your warrior/guardian bullshit. Next time you're in church, remind everyone what an idiot the dude nailed to the boards is because he sacrificed himself for assholes he never even met. Be consistent in your bitch mindset. Eli was a moron, maybe that was just some young thug gang banger and now his buddies know who he is. You think he had time to fully assess before acting? Go praise the Uvalde police. They did the right thing, by staying outside while children were murdered they lowered their personal risk. If nothing is more important than not getting shot at, that includes oaths and money. They were doing the smart thing.

Now, about the article, Greg knows fuck all about the shooting in Indy. Fuck. All. He has no idea the criminal histories, gang affiliations, motives, etc. He doesn't know if it's random or if one or more victims were targeted. "Possible gang association"? I'll pretend to wonder why that entered the conversation but I'm not going to play dumb. He knows what's in the media.

If this post is too harsh, so is a bunch of dead people you could have helped but were a bitch. Fuck your feelings.

I'm glad you said what you said. Obviously this is a hot button with you, as it should be if you are a moral, principled person.

In a discussion on another forum regarding the 'I'm going home safe at the end of my shift, no matter what' I posted about thical and moral responsibilities when you take a job that you should understand involves the assumption of risk. One of the forum cool guys responded something along the lines of 'good you can die knowing you've fulfilled your moral and ethical duties, I'll be going home.'

I'm not generally an emotional fanboi, but at times when reading discussions like this, I'd like to say that you ought to ask yourself 'what would Gordon or Shughart do?' There's your moral compass.