Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 41

Thread: Robert Vogel 2 Day Pistol Class AAR 01 Nov 2012

  1. #21
    Member bbqbologna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Awesome write-up. Thanks for taking the time.
    Some people call me Hendricks.

  2. #22
    Fantastic write up

  3. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Vienna, VA
    Good stuff, DocGKR! I always look forward to your writeups.

    Robert Vogel is very much on my short list to train with. In fact, the idea of driving out to Ohio for a private lesson is interesting...
    -C

    My blog: The Way of the Multigun

  4. #24
    Member cutter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Where does Bob post his class schedule?

  5. #25

  6. #26
    Member JMS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    He mentioned that this aggressive hand positioning sometimes presses against the slide release and prevents the slide from locking back on the last shot
    I'm encountering a variation of this. I shoot the M&P9fs, am a RH shooter, and recently discovered how much more stable things are when I get the social finger of my LH into the corner formed by the trigger guard and the social finger of my firing hand...vice my LH index finger in the same spot. That puts my support-hand index finger further forward on the trigger guard, but also puts that hand higher on the gun, and looks similar to what's shown in the 2nd image of your original post in this thread.

    In my case, however, the meat at the base of my off hand thumb is occasionally impinging on the slide stop/release, but UPWARD, causing the gun to lock open in the middle of a string of fire.

    Same circumstance occurred with a G19 sporting a Vickers slide stop, which ceased when I swapped back to the stock part. I don't have the option of going with a lower-profile slide stop/release with an M&P, soooo...

    In my case, I found that pointing the support-hand thumb downward acts to pull the meat of the base of my off-hand thumb away from the frame, and therefore away from the stop/release. I'm not consistently applying it, yet, but given that this is about a 3-week-old experiment, I'm optimistic. The accuracy improvement under speed is something I can't argue with, and I think I'm on the right path to getting that AND decreased splits. Baby steps.

    Doc, was the thumb-forward-and-down aspect discussed in that way at all, or was it simply a detail you noted? I'm finding the same gap between my hands at the butt of the gun that you mentioned, but my support wrist is also absolutely locked out...when I get it right in the first place...

  7. #27
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Vogel stated he was not too concerned with the exact position of this thumbs, as long as sufficient bilateral counter-torque was being applied to control the pistol and keep it as flat as possible in recoil.

  8. #28
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by JMS View Post
    In my case, I found that pointing the support-hand thumb downward acts to pull the meat of the base of my off-hand thumb away from the frame, and therefore away from the stop/release. I'm not consistently applying it, yet, but given that this is about a 3-week-old experiment, I'm optimistic. The accuracy improvement under speed is something I can't argue with, and I think I'm on the right path to getting that AND decreased splits.
    JMS,

    I found the same solution. I've been shooting this way for about 2 years, and I haven't noticed any negative effects of having my thumb pointed downwards. My left hand isn't quite as high as I could get it, but any higher and I get occasional failures to lock back. I'd rather guarantee lock back than shave a few more hundredths off my splits.

    Name:  photo (2).jpg
Views: 851
Size:  38.8 KB

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by JMS View Post
    I don't have the option of going with a lower-profile slide stop/release with an M&P, soooo...
    You might check with S&W on the availability of a narrower slide stop. When the M&P was first released it had a narrower profile.

    That part might still be available.

  10. #30
    My wife and I spent the day Tuesday doing a private tutorial with Robert Vogel at his home range in OH. We each shot near 1,000 rounds and enjoyed our time with Robert a lot. Besides his instruction, seeing him demo each drill was extremely valuable in terms of showing what is possible. Highly recommended.

    Biggest take away was Robert's thoughts on the ideal grip, with your dominant hand as aggressively high as possible, support hand as far forward as possible, along with torquing in with each hand to control recoil.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •