32 S&W Long Wadcutters vs 380?

[Shawn Dodson]

Federal .32 H&R Magnum 85gr JHP is a pleasure to shoot in an LCR (five shot chronographed velocity from an LCR: 1229 fps).

Fiocchi .32 Long 100gr lead wadcutter was like shooting a BB gun (five shot chronographed velocity from an LCR: 599 fps)

A .38 Special 148gr wadcutter has a sectional density of 0.166, and when propelled at 600 fps will penetrate about 18-inches (per Duncan MacPherson's book - Bullet Penetration: Modeling the Dynamics and the Incapacitation Resulting from Wound Trauma, Figure 10-2, Cylinder Bullet Penetration Depth, Curve B, p.247).

The Fiocchi .32 Long 100gr wadcutter has a sectional density of 0.147. Unfortunately MacPherson's Table 10-1 (p.244) doesn't include this bullet caliber or weight, but if one uses "Curve C" for a 9mm 130gr cylinder (wadcutter) bullet (which has an identical sectional density of 0.147), then Table 10-1 (p.244), and "Curve C" in Figure 10-2, shows a penetration depth of 15-16 inches for the Fiocchi .32 Long wadcutter at 600 fps.

[the Schwartz]

Just a data point, but I personally found 130 FMJ to be nearly as obnoxious as +P in my Airweight.

I would second trying some of Lost River's .38 short loads.

https://www.lostriverammocompany.com...t-Point-50-RND

I'll bet.

Using the SAAMI formula for recoil velocity, even at 800 fps, firing a 130-grain FMJ from an Airweight 642 gives a recoil velocity of 18 fps matching that of a full-power .44 Magnum 240-grain JHP fired from a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Many people—including me—find a recoil velocity of more than 15 fps to pretty uncomfortable, so that load cannot be a lot of fun to shoot.

[Malamute]

I'll bet.

Using the SAAMI formula for recoil velocity, even at 800 fps, firing a 130-grain FMJ from an Airweight 642 gives a recoil velocity of 18 fps matching that of a full-power .44 Magnum 240-grain JHP fired from a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Many people—including me—find a recoil velocity of more than 15 fps to pretty uncomfortable, so that load cannot be a lot of fun to shoot.

Interesting. I just ran the numbers on a 4" model 19 Smith, 158 gr @1300 fps, it showed 9.3 ft lbs recoil energy and 16 f/s recoil velocity.

[Dov]

For what it's worth, I have a model 36 that I hardly ever shot. I did carry it some but when I shot it with published 38 spl loads I wasn't impressed with how well I could shoot it. Consequently, I went back to my 9mm Sig P-239.

Recently I got curious about 38 SC. I loaded some up in 3 different flavors but I went off the res with a few loads not having any load data for the powder I was using. Snappy. I settled on a load that seemed to be a perfect fit for my 36. I really like the fact that the recoil is tame and the accuracy is pretty damn good. Just my observations here, but 38 spl loads are not conducive to good accuracy in J frame snubbies, especially for people that voted for Nixon. That's where 38 Short Colt shines in my opinion.

I've also owned and carried a .380. You won't get any blowback from me if you like the cartridge for SD.

I'll just turn this over to the experts now. LR has probably done some testing. I haven't.

J frames are hard to shoot well IMHO, at least in 38 and above.

I shot and dry fired my J frame a lot, for a J frame anyway, when it was my primary CCW. Certainly had over a thousand round through it, and I was dryfiring like 3+ days a week with it, when I got my first Glock 26.

I got the G26 because both Mas and Chuck Taylor liked it for CCW/BUG use and they didn't agree on a lot, so figured if they agreed it probably was a solid choice.

First time I shot the G26 I was amazed at how much easier it was to shoot than the J frame, with twice the ammo and IDK 10 times faster reloads (well that's probably exaggeration but it feels like it).

First time I shot it I was as least as good with it as the J frame I had put a lot of effort into to, and though G26 requires more effort for grip than a G19/17 etc compared to grip for J frame its easy IMHO.

So I started carrying the G26 in strong hand front pocket as primary and the J frame in weak hand front pocket as BUG, but eventually switched to pair of G26's in pockets.

Even back then before all my current health issues I couldn't carry IWB without debilitating pain, so pocket carry was my main CCW method.

When the 12 round mags came out for the G26 that made them even easier to shoot for me, for me a G26 with 12 round mag fits hand better than G19, and when I am wearing Duluth Fire Hose Pants I can pocket carry a pair of G26's with the 12 round mags, most other pants I have to drop down to the flush 10 round mag and with some pants I have to drop down to the J frame.

But I'm probably going to need to wear cloths more in line with J frame carry than G26 for work in next year or so, so I am trying to resolve issue of 38 recoil in Airweight J frame/LCR class pocket gun.

[Dov]

I'll bet.

Using the SAAMI formula for recoil velocity, even at 800 fps, firing a 130-grain FMJ from an Airweight 642 gives a recoil velocity of 18 fps matching that of a full-power .44 Magnum 240-grain JHP fired from a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Many people—including me—find a recoil velocity of more than 15 fps to pretty uncomfortable, so that load cannot be a lot of fun to shoot.

Huh, I thought the 130 FMJ only did like 600-700 fps from a J frame, the 38 Short Colts might actually be workable then.

Before all my health issues it was a comfortable practice load compared to the Rem 38+P 158 LHP, +P 125 JHP, and +P 135 GDHP I carried in it.

I'll have to get some and see, I could still shoot a gunfull of standard wadcutters every 3-6 months, I still have the grip strength to shoot +P for gunfull or two in it just messes up my hand for days so I might actually be able to practice monthly with the Short Colts and done at least twice a year with standard 38 Wadcutters.

[Dov]

And I want to say thanks to everyone being so supportive regarding my pain/health issues, bit belated in saying it. Sorry about that, just crazy at work and though work has been going far better than I was expecting I'm still getting worn out from it.

[the Schwartz]

Interesting. I just ran the numbers on a 4" model 19 Smith, 158 gr @1300 fps, it showed 9.3 ft lbs recoil energy and 16 f/s recoil velocity.

Makes sense to me. I got nearly the same numbers (made a broad assumption on propellant mass) you did. Probably not a lot of fun to shoot that load either.

[Malamute]

The info on Lost Rivers page on his 38 Short Colt loads indicates they are 125 gr @ 850 fps in a 4" gun. They show out of stock at the moment. You might contact him and see if he will load some at the original velocity of 125 gr @ 725 fps.

The brass is in stock at Starline right at the moment.

[Malamute]

Weird double... super slow loading.....

[Malamute]

Makes sense to me. I got nearly the same numbers (made a broad assumption on propellant mass) you did. Probably not a lot of fun to shoot that load either.

Its brisk, but I tend not to shoot many at a time. the muzzle blast is a bit unpleasant. I do have quite a lot of confidence it it, however. The full K target grips help with relative comfort, as does the round butt K Pachmayr compacs I had on the 2 1/2" 19 long ago.

I made a guess at 13 grs propellant, thats close to some 2400 loads. I havent loaded H-110 in 357 so far, I dont know what loads run with it, but I doubt the end result will change very much based only on small variations in charge.