Like 3 Little Fonzies: How to be cool under the gun

[YVK]

This thread is split off from the Armed & Styled thread.

That fairly false note simply doesn't comport with the reality that millions of untrained people defend themselves successfully with all kinds of sub-optimal firearms every year.

Fair point. This thread shows reasonably well that my sense of true/false/important/not is different from other's but I've always been more interested in the second part of that group, those who failed to defend themselves successfully with all kinds firearms, suboptimal or good. Another interesting bit, even less if at all known, is to what extent luck vs prep, training and equipment included, determines the outcome.

It's interesting to me how much people fetishize speed and accuracy because it's measurable. Don't read that as me saying speed and accuracy are unimportant. But the trend of spending hours to shave off milliseconds often when many of these same people have physical conditioning that wouldn't allow them to sustain a 30 second real fight, is kind of like stepping over dollars to pick up pennies.

In a context of this small pistol/big pistol thread, last year I timed my 7 yards / A zone draw of a Ruger LCP from a pocket holster wearing a reasonably well fitting pair of pants and with hands in an interview position. It was about 5 seconds. After that I decided to never carry a pocket pistol and instead spend my time on physical conditioning so I can ran away further in those 5 seconds.

[WobblyPossum]

Fair point. This thread shows reasonably well that my sense of true/false/important/not is different from other's but I've always been more interested in the second part of that group, those who failed to defend themselves successfully with all kinds firearms, suboptimal or good. Another interesting bit, even less if at all known, is to what extent luck vs prep, training and equipment included, determines the outcome.



In a context of this small pistol/big pistol thread, last year I timed my 7 yards / A zone draw of a Ruger LCP from a pocket holster wearing a reasonably well fitting pair of pants and with hands in an interview position. It was about 5 seconds. After that I decided to never carry a pocket pistol and instead spend my time on physical conditioning so I can ran away further in those 5 seconds.

What was the time if you started with your hand in your pocket, with a master grip on the gun already established?

[SouthNarc]

What was the time if you started with your hand in your pocket, with a master grip on the gun already established?

That’s the most tenuous part of Darryl’s trick.

Selling it.

[YVK]

What was the time if you started with your hand in your pocket, with a master grip on the gun already established?

Misread your question first time I replied.
Didn't try. Pants that I normally wear don't lend themselves well to keeping hands in pockets.

[WobblyPossum]

That’s the most tenuous part of Darryl’s trick.

Selling it.

For sure. You need to be able to get your hand into your pocket to get ahold of the gun in a way that doesn’t immediately lead the aggressor to believe you’re reaching for a gun. There are ways to make it work and ways to screw it up. You know this more than most. If you spotted the person and you put your hand in your pocket as the person approached, it’s pretty normal for people to have their hands in their pockets when they interact. The negative is you do end up with only one hand available to protect your head if they decide to take a swing. If you’re already being robbed and they order you to give up some valuables, they’ve given you permission to put your hand in your pocket. Just don’t screw up getting the gun out if that’s the plan.

Misread your question first time I replied.
Didn't try. Pants that I normally wear don't lend themselves well to keeping hands in pockets.

The pocket draw is only fast if you already start with your hand on the gun. As you found out when you tested it, trying to quickly jam your hand into your pocket and coming out with a gun isn’t generally a fast, smooth, foolproof process which is what we’re always looking by for. If you’re looking for a way to carry a gun that allows you what we would consider a fast draw when starting with both hands in a fence or interview stance, pocket carry isn’t it. What pocket carry is good at is concealing that you have a gun on your person when you can’t risk printing on the waistline so you have a gun when you otherwise might not have carried one. I’m guessing that’s what you originally started carrying the LCP in your pocket.

[SouthNarc]

If you’re already being robbed and they order you to give up some valuables, they’ve given you permission to put your hand in your pocket. Just don’t screw up getting the gun out if that’s the plan.

You have to sell it and being like Christopher Walken's father in True Romance ("...the world heavy weight champ of Sicilian liars") is the ticket.

The other part of the equation that people screw up is going to the pocket carefully and pulling it out suddenly. The change in speed spooks and startles. It should come out at the same speed you'd hand someone something.

[WobblyPossum]

You have to sell it and being like Christopher Walken's father in True Romance ("...the world heavy weight champ of Sicilian liars") is the ticket.

The other part of the equation that people screw up is going to the pocket carefully and pulling it out suddenly. The change in speed spooks and startles. It should come out at the same speed you'd hand someone something.

That’s exactly why I love this forum. I appreciate your participation and that of the other SMEs here so much. I never even considered the change in speed from going into the pocket to coming out of the pocket potentially ruining the whole attempt. Now I need to play around with normal pocket speed.

[SouthNarc]

That’s exactly why I love this forum. I appreciate your participation and that of the other SMEs here so much. I never even considered the change in speed from going into the pocket to coming out of the pocket potentially ruining the whole attempt. Now I need to play around with normal pocket speed.

You see the same exact thing happen when a police officer gets startled by the suddenness of someone's move, even if that's what they were told to do.

Movement at gunpoint under focus and attention should be steady.

[GJM]

You see the same exact thing happen when a police officer gets startled by the suddenness of someone's move, even if that's what they were told to do.

Movement at gunpoint under focus and attention should be steady.

You mean USPSA classification skills and internet confidence don't trump everything you have learned over decades of doing this for real -- who would have thunk it.

[JCN]

You see the same exact thing happen when a police officer gets startled by the suddenness of someone's move, even if that's what they were told to do.

Movement at gunpoint under focus and attention should be steady.

I love your content, both here and on the Warrior Poet subscription!

Can you clarify that we're talking about slow and steady when someone has a gun pointed at you and are focused on you, correct?

And there might still be a time and a place for a more rapid pocket draw and index, like if their attention is distracted or if their gun isn't drawn (or if they have an impact weapon and are a little farther away)?

I may just be internet fantasizing, but I've always liked pocket revolvers for the option of being able to fire from inside the pocket without jamming.

Thanks again for contributing to this thread!