Taurus…

[TeflonDon]

Lots of home gun smiths and remedies here.

Personally, I don't think Taurus is any different than S&W, Ruger or Colt these days. Many dissatisfied customers. It's the times we live in and the new business model.

I hope this gets resolved but it might take some serious effort, and money, on the owners part.

I was so damn frustrated with Ruger with repairs on a 77/357 rifle I just sold it. They couldn't repair it because it was a poorly designed bolt. But they tried. And the really amazing part about it is they still make them.

I think the only difference between modern times and 50-60 years ago is the internet and the fact that manufacturers are putting out several times more units than they did in the past. Now we have manufacturers selling close to a million or over a million annually.

I reckon if it wasn't for the internet, we wouldn't know about 99% of the issues QC issues others around the country have had. For example, none of us would know about @Totem Polar issue nor would we be having this conversation if not for the internet. I also reckon that the only reason that more people are reporting QC issues is that because the sample size is much larger. For the most part compared to the numbers S&W, Ruger, and Taurus at least are putting out annually, the number of reported issues is extremely low.

[Borderland]

I think the only difference between modern times and 50-60 years ago is the internet and the fact that manufacturers are putting out several times more units than they did in the past. Now we have manufacturers selling close to a million or over a million annually.

I reckon if it wasn't for the internet, we wouldn't know about 99% of the issues QC issues others around the country have had. For example, none of us would know about @Totem Polar issue nor would we be having this conversation if not for the internet. I also reckon that the only reason that more people are reporting QC issues is that because the sample size is much larger. For the most part compared to the numbers S&W, Ruger, and Taurus at least are putting out annually, the number of reported issues is extremely low.

I'm just comparing the quality of a S&W N frame built in 2010 and one built in 1968.... side by side. The process to produce those firearms has changed. Along with that, quality and quality control has been compromised. Firearms get shipped to dealers that should have never left the factory. Dealers in turn sell those firearms to unsuspecting customers. Unsuspecting customers then return the product, sometimes multiple times, without the problem being resolved. Unsuspecting customer then posts their experience on the internet.

The business model now doesn't support QC. It's just too expensive. It supports high volume sales and repair of a high percentage of what gets shipped to dealers.

Reminds me of the US auto industry in the 70's. Then the Japanese ate their lunch.

[Tamara]

I think the only difference between modern times and 50-60 years ago is the internet and the fact that manufacturers are putting out several times more units than they did in the past. Now we have manufacturers selling close to a million or over a million annually.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner here.

The Good Old Days mostly exist in people’s imaginations.

[Tamara]

I'm just comparing the quality of a S&W N frame built in 2010 and one built in 1968.... side by side.

1968 is three years into Bangor Punta ownership and well into the first era of cost cutting. CNC and MIM guns from the 1990s-2000s are better than any Smith revolver made between 1970 and 1990.

I always get a chuckle when guys at normie gun forums get all moist and runny at the mention of some generic N-prefix 27-2 or 29-2 because it's "pinned and recessed".

[TeflonDon]

1968 is three years into Bangor Punta ownership and well into the first era of cost cutting. CNC and MIM guns from the 1990s-2000s are better than any Smith revolver made between 1970 and 1990.

I always get a chuckle when guys at normie gun forums get all moist and runny at the mention of some generic N-prefix 27-2 or 29-2 because it's "pinned and recessed".

They think hand fitted = better. The reality is that what needed to be hand fitted by humans can now be done to a consistent and exact tolerance with CNC machines and other advanced modern processes.

[Tamara]

They think hand fitted = better. The reality is that what needed to be hand fitted by humans can now be done to a consistent and exact tolerance with CNC machines and other advanced modern processes.

It's a little bit of that and a little bit of the fact that there's an innate conservatism to the gun community, and I don't mean the political kind. I just mean that there's a general belief that everything's in constant decline, that the old ways and old days and old things were better.

It's easy to do because of survivorship bias and the tendency for people, as they get older, to have rosy memories of the times when they were young and in their prime.

Listen to the old guys at the gun show talk about how wonderful Detroit cars were back in the day, when the reality is that even before the quality slump of the Seventies & Eighties, a car was used up at 100k miles...provided it hadn't already rusted away to nothing.

People love talking about 19th Century revolvers and they mean Colts and Smiths and Merwin Hulberts, when the fact is that the hardware stores of the Old West were full of janky spur-trigger suicide specials that have also mostly rusted away to nothing.

Manufacturers are always going to try to maximize profit and QC is one of the easiest places to do it, especially when you have to compete on price with some Austrian company churning out guns that cost next to nothing to make.

[mtnbkr]

It's a little bit of that and a little bit of the fact that there's an innate conservatism to the gun community, and I don't mean the political kind. I just mean that there's a general belief that everything's in constant decline, that the old ways and old days and old things were better.

It's easy to do because of survivorship bias and the tendency for people, as they get older, to have rosy memories of the times when they were young and in their prime.

Listen to the old guys at the gun show talk about how wonderful Detroit cars were back in the day, when the reality is that even before the quality slump of the Seventies & Eighties, a car was used up at 100k miles...provided it hadn't already rusted away to nothing.

People love talking about 19th Century revolvers and they mean Colts and Smiths and Merwin Hulberts, when the fact is that the hardware stores of the Old West were full of janky spur-trigger suicide specials that have also mostly rusted away to nothing.

Manufacturers are always going to try to maximize profit and QC is one of the easiest places to do it, especially when you have to compete on price with some Austrian company churning out guns that cost next to nothing to make.

Even sticking to the premium brands like S&W or Colt, we're biased because we only have the examples that survive to give us that impression of quality. We don't have the gun that Great Grandpa Joe bought nearly 100 years ago and tossed into a pond because it failed multiple times, but we have the ones that served him well and were kept. As all the junk ones were discarded, we're left with the ones that were correctly built and survive to this day.

It's kind of like the meme that kids today are sissies for wearing bike helmets because we didn't wear them when we were kids and turned out fine. Well, yeah, but what about the ones that are not with us or are receiving 24x7 care because they smashed their helmetless head on the asphalt?

Chris

[Jim Watson]

I "fixed" mine with a 2" ejector rod in place of the 3" rod.

While I still think a spring wound with both ends closed and ground flat would work, another approach would be a stroke limiting collar like what Aristocrat makes for Smiths.

https://www.aristocratproducts.com/page3.html

[Lester Polfus]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner here.

The Good Old Days mostly exist in people’s imaginations.

Yes.

I'm old enough to remember when the only semi-auto pistol many people took seriously for defensive work was the 1911, and even then you took your brand new in-the-box Colt and sent it off to a smith for a "reliability package."

And don't get me started on cars. The last time some old dude stared at my 2017 Ford truck and started talking about his 1970s Ford that he could sit on the fender with his feet on the block while he worked on it, I said "your truck constantly needed work, leaked oil, got 8 miles to the gallon and was a rusted out piece of shit at 100K." I don't think we're friends anymore.

[Borderland]

1968 is three years into Bangor Punta ownership and well into the first era of cost cutting. CNC and MIM guns from the 1990s-2000s are better than any Smith revolver made between 1970 and 1990.

I always get a chuckle when guys at normie gun forums get all moist and runny at the mention of some generic N-prefix 27-2 or 29-2 because it's "pinned and recessed".

I have others built before 68 to compare to.

I don't think it has as much to do with pinned and recessed or CNC/MIM as it has to do with quality control out of the factory.

I absolutely will not buy a new S&W revolver for that reason, but somebody has to or they'll go out of business.

And I don't think the 60'-70's cars were all that great. Actually, I think they were about as bad as they could get. I bought a new Toyota Hilux in 78 because of that.