Snubs - Expert's Gun?

[Totem Polar]

On the topic of snub vs small auto for entangled mayhem—with the caveat that like most, I’m no Craig Douglas—I’ve become convinced that just about everything else you can do makes more difference than gun selection. So long as the gun is one-hand reliable and accessible, it will do if you do what you are told to do when you take ECQC.

Which is no mean feat under pressure, IME.

TBH, the reason I took a snub through ECQC had a lot more to do with me, and why I like snubs in the first place, and not a terrible amount to do with ECQC’s curriculum. I’ll go even further and say that the ECQC POI had literally *nothing* to do with my choice of gun the last time I took the course, I’m that gear-agnostic on it.

Now, the clinch pick is a different animal. THAT, I am a fan of. But I digress. Back to letting the experts talk.



*ECQC = ‘extreme close quarters concepts’
*IME = ‘in my experience,’ which really isn’t much
*TBH = ‘to be honest,’ which I try for… most of the time. When I’m not bullshitting somebody at a ski resort or something
*POI = (in this case) ‘program of instruction,’ which all these shivworks guys seem to have dialed in
*THAT = an emphatic endorsement of a clinch pick when someone younger, stronger, and better is on you and handing you your ass

[SouthNarc]

"And a huge percentage of people here are running snubs in their pockets so the option for a grip like that really isn't viable".

Yeah, I'm one of that huge percentage. I pocket carry that gun every day. It only weighs 12.5 ounces, so is quite comfortable and conceals well. I've been pocket carrying J-frames with those grips since 1967, so it seems viable to me. Your mileage may vary.

Not sure what kind of pants you wear or how big you are, but if that grips works in your pockets you keep doing you. Most people can’t pull that size grip off in a front pocket. So I’ll stand by what I said.

[JimCunn]

I'll drink to that. I'm short and fat (never thought I'd have that problem -photo attached-the weight crept up on me with age-I'm 81). I mostly wear cheap George brand slacks that I buy at Walmart. BTW, the pilot sits in the back seat in a J3. The plane is a 1946 model, so it is almost as scruffy as me.

[BillSWPA]

For front pocket carry, I have found the following:

1. Buy pants with sufficient room in the waistband for IWB carry. This will help ensure room for pocket carry.

2. Pleated pants are significantly better than flat front pants for hiding the bulge of the gun.

3. Although sufficient pocket depth is essential, too much depth places the gun too low on the leg, causing it to bounce around.

4. A good pocket holster which disguises the bulge without adding significantly to the bulk.

I have used several pocket holsters, and my current favorite for pants with vertical pocket openings is the Pocket Concealment Systems Tomahawk (assuming a G26 or P365 sized semiauto). Pocket Concealment Systems makes different holsters for different pockets as well as different types of guns, and has a few revolver specific designs. Having not tried any of their revolver designs, I would probably start with their French Curve, but I doubt anyone would go particularly wrong with any of their revolver-specific designs.

Another favorite pocket holster is the Aholster. I wrap some Moleskin around the pocket hook by the rear sight to protect my pocket. With this modification, I have found these holsters to work very well.

I have occasionally tried to carry a Colt Detective Special in a pocket. Although my pocket holster choices at the times I tried this were not as good as those mentioned above, I have found this gun to really, really push the limits of effective concealment. The grip length contributed to this difficulty. It might be possible to effectively conceal a revolver with a 3 finger grip in the right pocket with the right holster, but it would be a challenge. It is not something I would try in a non-permissive environment.

[TheNewbie]

This morning I shot my LCRx, with the boot grip and used 125 gr JHP and 130 gr JHP. Wow, that was stout and not something I would want to do all day.


A reliable .22 snub would make a better tool for most people.

[jtcarm]

On the topic of snub vs small auto for entangled mayhem—with the caveat that like most, I’m no Craig Douglas—I’ve become convinced that just about everything else you can do makes more difference than gun selection. So long as the gun is one-hand reliable and accessible, it will do if you do what you are told to do when you take ECQC.

Which is no mean feat under pressure, IME.

TBH, the reason I took a snub through ECQC had a lot more to do with me, and why I like snubs in the first place, and not a terrible amount to do with ECQC’s curriculum. I’ll go even further and say that the ECQC POI had literally *nothing* to do with my choice of gun the last time I took the course, I’m that gear-agnostic on it.

Now, the clinch pick is a different animal. THAT, I am a fan of. But I digress. Back to letting the experts talk.



*ECQC = ‘extreme close quarters concepts’
*IME = ‘in my experience,’ which really isn’t much
*TBH = ‘to be honest,’ which I try for… most of the time. When I’m not bullshitting somebody at a ski resort or something
*POI = (in this case) ‘program of instruction,’ which all these shivworks guys seem to have dialed in
*THAT = an emphatic endorsement of a clinch pick when someone younger, stronger, and better is on you and handing you your ass

I

I think we spend WAY too much time & money on hardware and not nearly enough on training.

Although to be fair, we are in a sub forum of “Hardware”.

[vcdgrips]

To extend the thoughts of TP, JT and others (with a lot of soapbox as follows):

“We” in this world, particularly, as “we” get older and have more “disposable income,” often pivot immediately to hardware solutions for what are often, and primarily, are software “problems.”

So we move from:

This platform to that platform

This holster to that holster

This pistol RDS to that RDS when they are not Trijicon, Holosun, Aimpoint and perhaps Sig and Steiner

yet we CANNOT

1. See our feet because we have “Dunlop” disease (as in our belly has done lopped waay over our belt line)

2. Run a mile in 9 min or walk one in 15

3. Bench press 50% of our body weight

4. Carry any first aid with us , even in an edc backpack or car, let alone take any training re stopping rapid exsanguination let alone ABC assessment and response(s).

5. Find the time to train/practice in any meaningful way, in or out of a formal setting, on or off line, live or taped etc.

6. Resist the urge to buy the “just as good,” usually made in China…when it almost never is as good and often does not even hit the intersection of quality/value.

I am not a snub guy. Having said that, if you are doing the work with a snub and can make rapid, multiple hits on an 8 inch plate on demand from your EDC carry method freestyle/ support hand/primary hand out to 7 yards, I would humbly submit that you have the bandwidth to work on other skills ie


A. First Aid
B. Fitness-Physical/Spiritual/Emotional
C. Studying Pre Assault Indicators
D. Critically thinking about your driving habits and car maintenance practices
E. Nutrition and Hydration
F. Etc.

I admit I could do better on everything I have I outlined above and working anything and everything mentioned above are not mutually exclusive concepts.


Rant over.

[03RN]

To extend the thoughts of TP, JT and others (with a lot of soapbox as follows):

“We” in this world, particularly, as “we” get older and have more “disposable income,” often pivot immediately to hardware solutions for what are often, and primarily, are software “problems.”

So we move from:

This platform to that platform

This holster to that holster

This pistol RDS to that RDS when they are not Trijicon, Holosun, Aimpoint and perhaps Sig and Steiner

yet we CANNOT

1. See our feet because we have “Dunlop” disease (as in our belly has done lopped waay over our belt line)

2. Run a mile in 9 min or walk one in 15

3. Bench press 50% of our body weight

4. Carry any first aid with us , even in an edc backpack or car, let alone take any training re stopping rapid exsanguination let alone ABC assessment and response(s).

5. Find the time to train/practice in any meaningful way, in or out of a formal setting, on or off line, live or taped etc.

6. Resist the urge to buy the “just as good,” usually made in China…when it almost never is as good and often does not even hit the intersection of quality/value.

I am not a snub guy. Having said that, if you are doing the work with a snub and can make rapid, multiple hits on an 8 inch plate on demand from your EDC carry method freestyle/ support hand/primary hand out to 7 yards, I would humbly submit that you have the bandwidth to work on other skills ie


A. First Aid
B. Fitness-Physical/Spiritual/Emotional
C. Studying Pre Assault Indicators
D. Critically thinking about your driving habits and car maintenance practices
E. Nutrition and Hydration
F. Etc.

I admit I could do better on everything I have I outlined above and working anything and everything mentioned above are not mutually exclusive concepts.


Rant over.

You had me until car maintenance

[Cecil Burch]

That's subjective but I think is generally a truth.

I disagree with the general statement that snubs are superior for ECQ deployment. The only advantage a snub has over an auto pistol is that they are usually much harder to leverage out of the defender's hand and that's just because there isn't much to grab on to. Ostensibly a small auto like an LCP has the same advantage.

I remember a thread on TPI around 2008/2009 where a guy went through ECQC with nothing other than shooting skills and got wrecked. So his solution for the next time was a snub. He got wrecked again. His solution that time was TWO SNUBS, one on either side so his idea was he could access either with either hand and that way he could absolutley get a gun out. Anyone want to guess what the result of that was?

99.99999999% of the answer to a contact range problem is software, NOT hardware.

And this is coming from someone who has generally run a snub more often than not for the past 20 or so years. There are a lot of reasons to run a snub for my circumstances. None of those reasons are centered around it being a "better gun for an entaglement".

[03RN]

I remember a thread on TPI around 2008/2009 where a guy went through ECQC with nothing other than shooting skills and got wrecked. So his solution for the next time was a snub. He got wrecked again. His solution that time was TWO SNUBS, one on either side so his idea was he could access either with either hand and that way he could absolutley get a gun out. Anyone want to guess what the result of that was?

99.99999999% of the answer to a contact range problem is software, NOT hardware.

And this is coming from someone who has generally run a snub more often than not for the past 20 or so years. There are a lot of reasons to run a snub for my circumstances. None of those reasons are centered around it being a "better gun for an entaglement".

There are very few reasons that justify carrying a revolver besides the fact that I just like them. There are tangible benefits to revolvers but as a whole it doesn't make them better for carrying.