Does you agency qual with duty ammo or FMJ?

[DpdG]

I already covered the duty vs fmj for quals portion, but since the conversation turned to what fmj- duty ammo is 147 HST, fmj is 147 from either Lawman or AE. Might not be exactly same poa/poi, but as close as can reasonably be achieved.

[Vista461]

We shoot FMJ.

[Chuck Whitlock]

We provided our own weapons and ammunition. During our annual qualification, the agency gives you a box of 9mm/.40/.45 to qual with.

On a side note, right up to the day of my retirement, this was one of the issues I railed against the hardest in our firearms instructor's cabal, since our 9mm duty load was 147gr JHP (A260L), and our then practice ammo was 124gr FMJ NATO load (M882). The differences in recoil and POA/POI might be minor, but, FFS, how hard is it to procure duty and training ammo that are at least similar in ballistics and recoil?

Of course, I had another FI at an Automatic Weapons Operator Course tell me I was "worrying about nothing" over the fact that we were having the new shooters zero with M193 (55gr FMJ) but our duty ammo was AB49 (62gr JHP). Sigh. Luckily, neither my monkeys nor my circus anymore.

This is why I buy 124 gr. FMJ 9mm to practice with, and carry 55 gr. .223 Gold Dots in my M4gery.

[KeeFus]

We can use FMJ/TMJ ammo that’s the “ballistic equivalent” in weight to qualify with (CCI 124gr TMJ and Speer 124gr GDs). We usually shoot the old duty ammo that was issued the prior year for the daytime qualifications then at night use the FMJ/TMJ in the same grain.

That’s written in the states admin code and our in-service training every year. The State requires that they be “ballistic equivalent”.

[MD7305]

We shoot twice a year, spring and fall. Typically during one of those range days you'll fire your existing duty ammo and get issued new ammo. The other range day you fire FMJ. Which range session you shoot duty ammo just depends on ammo availability, lesson plan, etc.

Rifle ammo is different. We rarely shoot our existing duty ammo which I believe is a supply thing more than anything. During our fall shoot this year we shot our existing duty ammo and got new duty ammo. It had been a couple years since the last time we did so.

[Whiskey]

We only use our duty ammo now, for training and quals. Keeps inventory and RDS zero really simple.

[H8Train]

Handgun qual 1x a year. 100 rounds total. 50 daylight, 50 low light. Depending on the year sometimes we would shoot up our duty loadout ammo (9mm Speer Gold Dot G2 147gr) and then 50 rounds of fmj (usually Federal American Eagle 147gr). Some times we were told to keep our duty ammo and just use all fmj.

Worst year for quals was 2021. Was told to strip our mags of duty ammo and I was given two trays or fmj rounds. About 30 were 147gr, the rest were a mix of 115 or 124.

Rifle quals 2x a year, with usually shooting duty ammo (Federal 62gr sp) at one of them. Otherwise its a mix of Federal american eagle 55gr ot 62gr.

[vcdgrips]

Very late to the party

"My" Local Metro Client Agency -Quals 2x per year plus an in service day with some shooting

1. Generally they qual w 180 G Lawman FMJ (duty is 180 Gold Dot)
2. Some duty ammo gets used for quals when they do an annual in service during which new ammo is issued and the duty gun/mags get a once over for new springs etc.
3. Open quals/practice nearly every fri 0700-1100 where folks can get 100 rds easily-FMJ.


Most of my Federal Client Agencies

1. Use Duty ammo for all purposes
2. Exception- FBI Regional SWAT when they were running 1911s seemed to mostly qual and practice with 230 FMJ and a bit of 230G Ranger SXT. The duty round at that time was a 230 G Golden Saber.

[Gadfly]

Semi related, back when we issued .40, FLETC which hosts our Academy, tried to go 100% lead free on all ranges. We identified two issues with the lead free ammo one of which resulted in one outdoor range being permanently reserved for standard lead ammunition.

The first was many new agents were having extractor issues their first year out of the Academy. The fix was to replace all extractors in their P229Rs before graduation.

The second issue was new agents who “qualified” in the academy using lighter recoiling lead free frangible and then had difficulty qualifying in the field using duty ammo.

We started having them shoot at least one qual with duty ammo before graduation. Not sure if this is still an issue now that we’ve gone to 9mm. @Gadfly might have more current info.

Just back from FLETC...

New agents are training with Lead Free frangible ammo 90% of the time. Mix of manufacturers and weight, but typically 100-115gr ammo and relatively powder puff loads.

On pre qual day and qual day we will try and reserve the lead range to all ow for confirmation of zero with duty ammo, and a pre qual a couple of days before the qual.

We use a laser bore sight to "zero the RDS" before we issue the guns. We get a rough zero with the student. The problem is, Fletc is not consistent with what brand/weight of ammo we get day to day. So zero with 100 Gr Speer today, shoot 124gr Gold dot next week, shoot 115gr Winchester frang tomorrow, Purple RITA ammo next week... there is not a real shift for most shooters, but some hold a tight enough group that they will see a few inch POI shift ever day due to ammo changes. We cant re zero every day. So we do the bore sight day one, and then sight in with duty ammo the day before the qual. I never saw anyone move more than 2-3" on any gun at 25yrds, most guns were on from the bore sight.

Our duty ammo is 124gr Gold Dot, but fletc was out, so the last two classes qual'ed and sighted in with 147gr Gold Dot. You use what is in inventory.

[deputyG23]

My place was only able to source duty ammo in the quantity required to transition from the .40 G23 to the 9mm G17 in the time frame we wanted.
So, for now, it is duty ammo for everything. I hope they continue this practice.
I did weapons inspections for our courts staff and there was always "that one" that had ball ammo in some or all of their mags.
One (now retired) "dutch loaded" his magazines, alternating ball and duty Ranger-T rounds.