Henry makes a 223 BLR-like lever gun.
Henry makes a 223 BLR-like lever gun.
Semper Paratus,
Steve
I had a 95 saddle ring carbine in HS and hunted with it, 30-40 Krag. Heavy like a 8.5 lbs. and mortar like trajectory. I shot my first deer with it when I was about 15. The reason the first rifle I purchased when I had the money was a bolt rifle model 70..Originally Posted by 45dotACP
I'm not saying a lever carbine wouldn't be useful in a SD situation, just that bolt rifles are more versatile. I don't own any lever rifles today but certainly understand how they work and the very complex actions..
Last edited by Borderland; 05-04-2024 at 10:35 PM.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
Now I've been looking at some of the customized Uberti 1873s some of the Cowboy Action Shooting guys have been pointing me towards. Longhunter with a short stroke kit and all sorts of other things done to slick them up.
The 1873 18" in .357 is about $2110 after shipping/fees: https://www.longhunt.com/web/index.p...ction-shooting
I don't know if having these "upgrades" would have any effect on reliability, either negatively or positively, but it seems to be the go-to for the CAS guys, some of which shoot quite a lot.
I had the opportunity to load for and shoot a .357 bolt rifle, with a 4x scope, for about 4 years. I was so disappointed in the accuracy at 100 yds I sold the rifle. That was after it went back to Ruger and they put a new barrel on it. You can probably guess the model. Eventually I bought another Ruger, a Mini-14 Ranch and I'm happy with the <3 MOA after I had some trigger work done. It's reliable, easy to scope, and uses magazines.
Pistol cartridge carbines are a mistake and I proved it to myself. Of course if you want to cosplay I don't see anything wrong with a .357 lever rifle, but there are more versatile rifles, excluding the AR, for SD.
Last edited by Borderland; 05-05-2024 at 09:14 PM.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
The Mini 14 is on my short list as well, particularly for travel to certain states, though practical or not, I still want a reliable lever action rifle. Or more generally, a manually-operated rifle that is a little faster than a bolt action (Ruger American Ranch). I am open to suggestions regarding lever action choices (both pistol and rifle caliber) and other manually operated rifles.
There seem to be several people here who have been satisfied with their pistol caliber lever actions.
For me, this is more of a close-in use type gun, so as long as accuracy is workable within 50 yards (100 max), I'd be satisfied. That said I am not stuck on pistol caliber, and am aware that there are specific quirks associated with them.
Im not sure what the PC lever quirks mentioned are, if you could give more specifics it would help. What I am aware of is winchester 94s in 357 can be temperamental in some regards, but thats not a blanket statement that applies to other calibers or other models for the same reasons. Model 92s need to have the guide rails fitted correctly, most seem to be. Bullet shape/style can affect feeding in some guns, and doesnt seem to matter in other examples of the same make/type. 73s seem to feed better in most regards since the cartridge is feeding nearly on the same plane as the chamber and is contained in the carrier. I tried my 73 357 upside down with Fed JSP, it didnt seem to like it much, but I havent needed one to feed upside down so far, I guess Im satisfied with its reliability otherwise.
As far as a CAS tuned gun to start out, Im not sure why one would spend that kind of money as a starter. Ive used levers fairly extensively since the early 70s and so far havent had any of the CAS type modifications done on any of mine and would likely put them back to stock if I bought one so modified. I havent attempted to run one so hard it required any special work, but in shooting to my ability in follow-up shots have not had any malfunctions or problems. Ive changed a lot of little tings on many of my guns (sights, stocks, slings, barrel band locations, chopped barrels, clean up rough internal parts on a few) just none of the CAS type stuff thats popular.
The only levers that come to mind as complicated would be the Winchester model 95, and perhaps a Browning BLR, though both seem to work pretty well overall. Ive had a couple Browning 95s in 30-06, neat guns, but the protruding box magazine makes them awkward to carry compared to tube magazine guns. Whatever the number or parts a particular guns has (if thats part of a perception of complicated) compared to some other gun, the traditional levers Ive had and been around seem to mostly work well.
There are no perfect guns, many do some things better than others, some can do a lot of things very well. Levers carry better than anything else Ive tried, are simple to operate, handle well, like shooting running rabbits, been very reliable in most of my use (without going into specific makes), and reasonably accurate for most things I need to do on an average day. I very much like that I can easily swap a very light load for snakes, small game or whatever, and clear the chamber, while the magazine is left loaded. If I specifically go out to hunt meat I take a scoped bolt gun, but otherwise dont like carrying bolts much, they just feel thick, chunky and awkward compared to levers to me. Probably the biggest thing for me is I like them, partly for their general usefulness as a day to day gun, and for the history. I understand why people choose other things for whatever their uses are, for my use they are my favorite for a daily carry and keep close gun. For me they fit the same niche as a Smith 19, Smith 29, or Colt/Ruger single action. As a rough guess Ive carried some lever to some degree a couple thousand days since I moved to Az in 81. I could easily do without anything else.
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
I couldn’t tell you much on what I’ve heard about pistol caliber lever actions being more finicky. JLW has talked about it. I think it was mainly that sometimes .38 doesn’t play nice in a .357 lever action.
I agree, I don’t think I need the slicked up version, I’d probably go with a factory option. So do you think the Cimarron/Uberti 1873 in .357 would be a good pick?
Cartridge length can matter, apparently even between individual guns, I think the 92s can be adjusted or tuned a but to allow more length variation. The 73s will tolerate a little length difference, but likely not quite as much as a properly set up 92, just as a seat of the pants guess. Theres a tab on the lower front part of the bolt that interacts with the cartridge stop, a spring steel thing in the left front part of the receiver that moves over to stop more shells from coming out of the mag when the bolt opens. When those parts move apart, that timing, is what determines the length of cartridge that works. Im certain a good lever smith can adjust that, as should any moderately talented home gun tinkerer that understands how the guns function. The 73s have fewer parts related to cartridge stop function, just the carrier and how much its beveled inside the front edge.
The Cimarron/Uberti 73 should be a very good example, if I didnt have the Miroku/Winchester gun thats what I would have.
I prefer the carbines for several reasons, the shorter and lighter aspect being a significant part. The butt stocks of the carbines are more friendly to my shoulder also. ive had a few original and repro rifles with crescent butts. Mention not liking them and you will generally get at least one person telling you theyre great, youre just not doing it right. I had the crescent cut off my Browning 1886 I disliked it so much, trying the 500 gr loads @ 1750 fps had something to do with it, but it was more of a last straw. Shotgun butt with a rifle type or the regular carbine butt like the old late 1800s to 1920s carbines had fit me well and are comfortable to shoot. Stock fit can be pretty individual, but the fact that crescent butts died out in general use is a clue to me that Im not the oly one that doesnt like them much.
The Brits had the stock thing figured out on rifles long before the Americans caught on. They had shotgun butts on sporting rifles back into the flintlock period. Tradition dies hard in some ways, even when it sucks.
Last edited by Malamute; 05-06-2024 at 07:59 PM.
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
As for the slicked up or modified gun, like most things, id just say shoot it a while until you get to know it enough to understand if they will really make a useful difference for you. You can spend the extra money saved on ammo. I pretty much put a sling and receiver sight on most, though the 73 carbine has only gotten the sling so far, I carry them in hand, but its nice to sling it when needing both hands. I like the issue sights with the addition of bright orange nail polish on the front sight.
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
I certainly will do. I'd much rather spend the money on ammo. I'd also love to find a receiver sight, though I don't know how to go about finding one.
I'm about 90% sure I'm going with the Uberti/Cimarron 1873 in .357, but I'm also still minorly considering a Winchester/Miroku (new production) 1892, but I can't find much on how those do or how they compare to a Uberti '73 reliability-wise.
The other only one I'm still considering is a Ruger-Marlin 336 in .30-30 for a true rifle caliber levergun, which seems to be what resident lever gun SME jlw prefers. The Ruger-produced Marlins seem to be doing well, though .30-30 is quite expensive and not as commonly available as it used to be in my AO.
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