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  1. #1
    Member
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    Feb 2011
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    Chicago, IL.

    Vogel's grip and trigger finger manipulation....

    ***Let me preface this post by stating that I do not claim that Bob Vogel or anyone else for that matter created the grip I am referring to below. Only that I observed him using it in his video which was the reason for my post***

    I was watching Bob Vogel's video demo of his preferred grip and I noticed something that he does with his support hand index finger in-relation to his strong hand trigger finger as shown in the pic below:


    I have seen a couple of other highly regarded shooters/instructors using a similar grip which places the support hand index finger in the same place as in the pic. Basically in-between the strong hand trigger and middle fingers instead of wrapped over the shooting hands middle finger.

    I have just been doing some dry fire practice while trying out this grip and while the technique Vogel demos in the video feels super locked-in and stable, it feels as my trigger finger slightly drags on the support hand index finger during the trigger pull.

    I need to try this grip live fire to see if it causes me any interference in manipulation of my trigger finger but I am wondering if anyone else who uses this grip has any insight or advice on doing it right.
    Last edited by NickDrak; 09-28-2012 at 11:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Central IA
    I've tried something similar if not exactly the same. It felt to me that it required my trigger finger to be almost too high on the trigger, while it never caused me to not engage the trigger safety that thought was in my mind.

    I grip very close to what you described as the norm alternative, the support hand index covering the firing hand's middle finger knuckle.
    OEF Vet
    Reading and Learning

  3. #3
    Interesting. I wonder if finger placement is just a secondary occurrence, with primary goal being the highest possible position of the support hand.
    I am going to try this, but I am nearly 100% positive that there will be an interference with P30's slide release lever.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chicago, IL.
    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Interesting. I wonder if finger placement is just a secondary occurrence, with primary goal being the highest possible position of the support hand.
    I am going to try this, but I am nearly 100% positive that there will be an interference with P30's slide release lever.
    Exactly, in his video he explains that he likes to get his support hand as high as possible. I don't recall him mentioning the placement of the support hand index finger in the video at all. Also notice how far forward his support hand is on the bottom of the trigger guard.

    Another pic:

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Interesting. I wonder if finger placement is just a secondary occurrence, with primary goal being the highest possible position of the support hand.
    I am going to try this, but I am nearly 100% positive that there will be an interference with P30's slide release lever.
    I have been using a grip similar to that after a friend learned it from a Defoor class and expounded on how awesome it was. It lived up to the hype, IMO. With my hands, it does interfere with the P30's slide release, but only when the gun is dry, with the slide not locking back on empty; when the gun is lubed up, the issue goes away.

  6. #6
    At one time I used a similar support hand placement to that shown in the pic. I think it from an article by Massad Ayoob. Actually, I used it until fairly recently. I quit using it because my wrists have a lot of wear and tear on them from years of twisting screwdrivers, allen wrenches, as well as pulling on wrenches and ratchets. That support hand placement caused me to end shooting sessions with numbness in my left thumb, so I had to give it up.

    I'm not saying it's a bad grip by any means, don't think I'm criticizing people that are far above my current skill level, it's just that I had to give it up. I think it was putting extra pressure on the main nerve coming into my left hand, but I'm not a doctor, so I can't be sure.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    TN/VA
    My grip is similar and I don't notice my fingers interfering with one another. When I took AFHF and Todd explained placement of "other strong hand" my left index finger restis n the same manner as above. It also prevented me from shooting my P30 well because my finger would unintentionally manipulate my paddle mag release.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Portsmouth, OH
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    At one time I used a similar support hand placement to that shown in the pic. I think it from an article by Massad Ayoob. Actually, I used it until fairly recently. I quit using it because my wrists have a lot of wear and tear on them from years of twisting screwdrivers, allen wrenches, as well as pulling on wrenches and ratchets. That support hand placement caused me to end shooting sessions with numbness in my left thumb, so I had to give it up.

    I'm not saying it's a bad grip by any means, don't think I'm criticizing people that are far above my current skill level, it's just that I had to give it up. I think it was putting extra pressure on the main nerve coming into my left hand, but I'm not a doctor, so I can't be sure.
    I remember reading about this grip in Ayoob's book "Stressfire" and tried it. Found that it slowed down my first shot on target getting the grip, but did try it in GSSF Matches for awhile, but it got to feel uncomfortable to me so I quit using it. I seem to recall Ayoob calling it the "wedge".

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Midwest
    Those photos show a grip very similar to mine. Like others mentioned, I try to get my support hand as reasonably high as I can get it. That's one of the reasons I like the Glock trigger guard; its 90-degree leading edge makes it easier to nudge my support hand index finger that much farther forward. I've found that curved trigger guards make it easier for my support hand index finger to slip up to the front of the trigger guard instead.

    I haven't found my trigger finger dragging along my support hand fingers at all when I shoot this way. It also lets me more easily manipulate my weapon-mounted light with the support hand thumb without changing the rest of my support hand's grip.
    If you knew you were going to be in a fight for your life tomorrow, what would you change today?

  10. #10
    STAFF
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    My left index finger has ended up in roughly the same spot as an artifact of how I grip the gun. I never deliberately set out to do it, it just sort of happened.

    It can become an issue if you're shooting with gloves on, as I've noted on multiple occasions that the gloved left index finger can interfere with trigger pull on some semi-auto pistols.

 

 

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