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Thread: 9 vs 45 FMJ

  1. #1

    9 vs 45 FMJ

    Just read something elsewhere, and decided to ask. Apparently, the conventional wisdom is that if one is limited to FMJ, then bigger caliber is better. Is it true? The common knowledge is that modern JHP loads in various calibers aren't appreciably different in their effects on unobstructed targets, despite theoretical benefits of larger cavities with bigger calibers. What's then out there that perpetuates the advice of going with 45 if limited to ball ammo? Is it that 9 ball is below some arbitrary threshold, or over-penetrates too much, or just shown to be bad from the field reports? Or is that advice baseless?

  2. #2
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    9 mm M882 FMJ does NOT have a stellar reputation for effective terminal performance. If stuck using only true FMJ and unable to use something like EFMJ, I'd definitely prefer .45 ACP.

  3. #3
    Thank you, that answers it.

  4. #4
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    Keep in mind, the capacity, it's the NATO cartridge (read *CHEAP*! and plenitful), shot placement and recoil management debates may also be a factor in why you see the prevalence of 9mm.

    Ballistic performance, unfortunately, probably isn't the ultimate deciding factor always.

    That being said, if I had to shoot at something once, with one bullet and I had a .45 FMJ and a 9mm FMJ, I would take .45 FMJ, simply put, it's a larger bullet, penetrates very well and makes a larger hole.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter 37th Mass's Avatar
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    It would be pretty interesting to see some objective testing on the two military FMJ loads. It stands to reason that a 230 gr .45 would outperform a 124 gr. 9 mm, but I wonder by how much?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by wecole View Post
    It would be pretty interesting to see some objective testing on the two military FMJ loads. It stands to reason that a 230 gr .45 would outperform a 124 gr. 9 mm, but I wonder by how much?
    Doubt that we'll see this. The results in gel would be predictable as far as the cavity sizes are concerned, and are the theoretical backing to why the answer to "one shot" question is almost always a bigger caliber. The fact that we treat modern JHPs as practically equivalent on unobstructed targets doesn't come as much from the objective gel tests as from "outcomes studies" of OIS, collected and analyzed by FBI and ballistic experts. To me such outcomes data is what's most relevant. My take on DocGKR's reply is that there is sufficient data from .mil results that 9 mm ball is below the threshold of acceptable terminal performance, if such verbiage can be used. Once the caliber/load is below a certain absolute threshold, I doubt there is much interest in finding out by how much it actually sucks comparing to other caliber. That's my take on this.

  7. #7
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    I'd still roll with a hicap 9mm loaded with NATO.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  8. #8
    Member JConn's Avatar
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    I don't think it's just fmj. Bigger bullet seems to equal better wound characteristics whether or not it's fmj jhp swc any other acronym you can think of. We as shooters have to make a decision that weighs terminal performance and shoot ability. If all I could shoot was ball, or if magazine capacity was limited I would shoot 45. All jhp do is make 9mm actually a viable choice.
    Evil requires the sanction of the victim. - Ayn Rand

  9. #9
    Member Al T.'s Avatar
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    IME, all FMJ sucks for killing things. I've killed one deer and one turkey with a 1911 loaded with .45 FMJ and the wound channels were very disappointing. I had access to some good hog hunting land and validated that 9mm JHPs (124 Gold Dots) work quite well on hog heads and one doe's rib cage.

    Like JHC, I'd take an M9 over a 1911 and an M&P .45 over both if I had to carry ball ammo.

    I still have a box of Hornady .45 ACP Jacketed Truncated Cone in the ammo locker. This was developed in (IIRC) the mid '80's in an effort to introduce a better projectile for the .45 ACP. A flat meplat is more effective than the round nose of most FMJ ammo.

  10. #10
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    It depends.

    Forced to use actual hardball, CONUS urban CCW carry scenario I'd go with a .45, in a .mil setting I'd go with the 9mm. If I was a city cop working a lot of calls for service, .45,,,,, a trooper doing lots of car stops out in BFE, back to 9mm.

    Having seen a bad guy stay very, very dangerous for a shocking period of time after taking a Winchester 230gr ball round, launched from a S&W 645, through the sternum>aorta>miss the spine and exit leaving a 7/8" wound, a hit that didn't even make him flinch, I lost my "they all fall to hardball" thoughts a long time ago.


    When I had to take a trip to NJ awhile back, before they changed HR218 ref the ammo issue, I felt well armed with a Glock 19 loaded with 124gr +P EFMJ and a back up mag of NATO ball in case I had to get through cover.

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