LL, sorry man, but Kristofferson wrote that. I think Waylon was one of the ones that covered it, but it was Kris' tune.
LL, sorry man, but Kristofferson wrote that. I think Waylon was one of the ones that covered it, but it was Kris' tune.
If we're going to quibble, I didn't say Waylon wrote it. I did know that Kristofferson wrote it but the song is Waylon's to me because of the way he sang it. Kind of like "I Hung My Head" regarding Johnny's version of it and Sting writing it.Originally Posted by Jared
#RESIST
While I strongly feel that there is a niche for cheaper guns, I think the HP falls short, especially in the larger calibers.
In the past I have seen this niche filled with guns like the Raven .25, which actually works. Claude has documented guns such as the Jennings J22 being reliable enough for him to carry.
I distinctly remember some years ago working a call where a resolute young lady walked several home invaders backwards out her front door at the point of a Rossi .38 loaded with Winchester RNL. They had no doubt that due to her young son being in the apartment that she would in fact start shooting if they didn't GTFO.
In this case they thought a slight 20 something chick with a small child would be easy pickings, so they kicked her door and went in unarmed. I was a bit sad that she didn't flak-blast the lot of them, but I also know she could do without the drama of having to deal with that.
The place she had bought the gun from gave her a break and sold her 12 rounds when she bought the gun, she couldn't afford the whole box of ammo. She drove out to the county, banged off 6 rounds to be sure the gun worked, then loaded the last 6 rounds and called it good.
Not sayin it's the best plan, but it saved her from being robbed, and likely gang raped, which often ends in a brutal murder, and it likely would have done OK if things had gotten to the shots fired point.
We know that guns like that Rossi .38, or a Raven .25, often work as light duty pieces, they can be counted on for a few hundred rounds to be reliable. I fear that folks expect the same from the HPs, and they place themselves in a dangerous position by doing so.
Although this thread has been one of the more entertaining examples of an exercise in futility I can only say this of the HP C-9, etc. it (of course they) are what they are and will continue to be manufactured and sold. What confounds me is CNC machining equipment has matured to the point of all in one unit that can mill components from quality cast or forged alloy or steel. CNC injection molding has also matured to the point of multi-source units casting inexpensive polymeric or glass fiber frames and slides. Kel -Tec and others really geared up on this, now firms such as Ruger are on board as well. We’re not even considering Glock and other European brands here. So, given all of this development and the maxim that mass production lowers cost why are we still seeing pot metal guns?
I can only imagine that cast zamak is still way cheaper than steel, no matter how you slice it....especially given Hi-Point is located with a well established zamak industry.Although this thread has been one of the more entertaining examples of an exercise in futility I can only say this of the HP C-9, etc. it (of course they) are what they are and will continue to be manufactured and sold. What confounds me is CNC machining equipment has matured to the point of all in one unit that can mill components from quality cast or forged alloy or steel. CNC injection molding has also matured to the point of multi-source units casting inexpensive polymeric or glass fiber frames and slides. Kel -Tec and others really geared up on this, now firms such as Ruger are on board as well. We’re not even considering Glock and other European brands here. So, given all of this development and the maxim that mass production lowers cost why are we still seeing pot metal guns?
Even Kel-Tec doesn't meet Hi-Point prices, and I'm sure the demand for Kel-Tec is just as strong as Hi-Point.
I think the difference is that almost no one gets online bragging about their Jennings. It's not just that the Hi Point sucks, but the fact that so many Keyboard Operators want to argue they're the smarter choice compared to, eg, a Glock.
It's a combination of the materials used and the fact that it's a straight-blowback design that's trying to handle duty calibers. Since there's not a mechanical locking system, the only thing keeping the gun in battery during discharge is the force of the recoil spring and the mass of the slide. When you start talking about rounds like 9/.40/.45, the slide mass has to increase so the gun doesn't go the wrong kind of boom.
Compare the Hi-Point with the old HK VP70:
Notice the huge slide, just like a Hi-Point, and I'm pretty sure HK wasn't using pot metal.
The only way you can really get around this is by including some sort of mechanism to retard slide movement during discharge. HK eventually came up with a really clever gas-delayed blowback system for the HK P7, which has an unusually light slide for a blowback gun, but it was also a very expensive pistol to produce.
I've fired the VP70....by comparison the slide on it feels positively svelte.
Sorry I couldn't come up with something more witty, but I just learned of the existence of a pistol named The 1911 Carry Nightmare and I'm feeling woozy.
So do you have it coming in 45 or 357sig?
Scott
Only Hits Count - The Faster the Hit the more it Counts!!!!!!; DELIVER THE SHOT!
Stephen Hillier - "An amateur practices until he can do it right, a professional practices until he can't do it wrong."
I used to own a VP70Z, and while that gun and the HP are both blow-bakc guns, the similarity in execution and materials is nowhere near comparable.
If the VP had a decent trigger and sights it might still be around.
Reply With Quote
