What is the basis for your statement "most people are getting 2-3 inch groups at 25m?"Originally Posted by GOP
What is the basis for your statement "most people are getting 2-3 inch groups at 25m?"
My basis is from reading reviews in this thread, seeing guys like 10-8 review it, and my experience with both of mine I've owned (I have 3rd coming soon too from a member here, I'm assuming it also has a 2012 barrel). I remember not too long ago GJM you loved yours and said Bill Rogers recommended the M&Ps.
http://thedownzerojourney.wordpress.com/
Absolutely love the ergos as does Bill Rogers. Absolutely despise the accuracy on my sample of >10 9mm M&P pistols at 25 yards.
If you read carefully what Hilton Yam said, he likes the M&P despite the load sensitivity his M&P pistols exhibit. If accuracy was the main criteria, I can't imagine any knowledgable shooter picking the M&P 9.
The ergos and aftermarket support is what has sold me on this series of pistols. The PPQ is still the best 9mm on the market IMO when it comes to out of the box performance, but stock sights and holsters made by "Somedoodinhisgarage" gets old after a while.
If need be, I'll drop a aftermarket barrel in if parts degrade accuracy. The ergos are that good to me
http://thedownzerojourney.wordpress.com/
Comp-Tac is finally catching up with the PPQ and offer all of their IWB line. OWB is still in development, but at least a mainstream holster maker is supporting the 'Q.' Also, Kaluban Cloak is also making PPQ holsters. For leather, High Noon is offering their entire line for the PPQ. Occidental is also a leather holster maker supporting the 'Q'. So holsters are out there. I've been running a PPQ since December, no issues from mine. I agree, they are that good.
My wife's PPQ fits perfectly in every P2000 leather holster I own.
That's not saying a whole lot because P2000 holsters are pretty scarce, but they are somewhat more plentiful than PPQ specific holsters.
"For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
-- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --
I was gonna say...
"No, it's cool, I found out the nearest Skoda dealership has parts for my SEAT!"
(FWIW, in a real pinch, the P226 is the universal holster, and the CZ-75 is the universal gun.)
Hopefully that will soon be a viable option once Apex gets their barrels to market. The problem is, right now, dropping an available after market barrel into a M&P 9 appears to be no more likely to improve accuracy than randomly switching factory barrels or slides.
On the plus side, I have heard rumblings that some M&P 9's made in the last few months are shooting better, as in sub 5 inches at 25 yards, and best results are often with 147 grain ammo. You might try some 147 shooter and carry ammo in your new M&P pistols.
What is interesting is my M&P pistols were very individual, and seemed to show no obvious preference for 147 grain ammo, with Ranger 124+P or HST 124 +P, but not both loads, often being the carry load that would shoot. My single most accurate M&P 9, which had an RMR, shot Aguila 124 ball into about 2.5 inches at 25 yards, shot 124+P HST and Ranger poorly (6 inches +/-), but shot HST 147 3.5-4 inches as its best carry load. My take away is that if your M&P doesn't shoot at 25 yards, keep trying many different loads from 115 to 147 grains, both standard pressure and +P. Expect that each pistol is likely to be unique in preferences, and if you are OK with that, you will likely find a combo that works. My issue was trying to have two shooters plus a carry gun for me, and the same for my wife, became too big an ammo management hassle for me to deal with.
On the other positive news front, I also heard from an extremely connected individual, that very recent Gen 4 Glock 9's are now running reliably, and typically shooting 2 inch groups at 25 yards.
I sure do hope that improvements from Glock and S&W, are not just in special built pistols for LE/MIL.
@ tamara inset frank the tank "you're crazy man. I like you."I was gonna say...
"No, it's cool, I found out the nearest Skoda dealership has parts for my SEAT!"
(FWIW, in a real pinch, the P226 is the universal holster, and the CZ-75 is the universal gun.)
He's got a fucking dart in his neck...
"On the other positive news front, I also heard from an extremely connected individual, that very recent Gen 4 Glock 9's are now running reliably, and typically shooting 2 inch groups at 25 yards."
I still find it mind boggling that Glock has spent years fixing something that used to work. Of course, I am still mad at Coke for New Coke and Coke Classic made with corn syrup.......
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