Tweaking stuff, I'm over it?

[DonovanM]

Being unaware of it doesn't mean it makes no difference. Add five pounds to your trigger pull and rough up some of the action contact surfaces with a file. See if it makes a difference.

Sure. I ran a SIG for a couple years. Was never aware of the 10lb DA trigger at speed, but it was also smooth as hell... I think having a rough trigger that rustles your jimmies every time you shoot it would be outside the envelope of workability... simply because it was distracting.

[ToddG]

Sure. I ran a SIG for a couple years. Was never aware of the 10lb DA trigger at speed, but it was also smooth as hell...

I've shot a few rounds through DA/SA guns myself. I agree 100%, I never noticed the DA shot in a match. But I put a lot of effort into how I draw and how I worked the trigger. But when I switched to a DAO (more specifically, a DAK) there were noticeable differences. The full length reset mattered. Was it insurmountable? No. But it was a hurdle that was more easily avoided than jumped.

I think having a rough trigger that rustles your jimmies every time you shoot it would be outside the envelope of workability... simply because it was distracting.

I'd say a rough trigger is far worse than a heavy one. By definition, a rough trigger makes it harder to perform a smooth pull.

[Aray]

Todd, we did a few Timed evolutions. What I remember specifically was my draw fire one from concealment at 7 10 and 15 yards were right where I expected them to be as well as 1 reload 2s.

[Aray]

I'm not saying this is a scientific reality, I was just surprised that I didn't notice not having all the little doodads. I'm sure my fast time would be lower with all the tweaky stuff.

It was an emotional realization not a quantifiable one.

[LOKNLOD]

As a new shooter, small improvements/differences can have a big impact in shootability in a pistol. The downside is that as a new guy it's nigh on to impossible to know exactly what's worthwhile and what isn't, and more importantly, why. That's why inexperience (and often, laziness) encourages folks to chase doo-dads instead of skills, and often they find they get "great results" from stuff that is really a gimmick, hindrance, or otherwise crappy part. Many never get out of this phase.

As you get the fundamentals down pat, and are getting to be a good shooter, you find that many of the differences you used to worry about don't matter as much. If you understand the core skills and how to execute them, you can pick up an unfamiliar or non-ideal pistol and still make it work. So the importance of the extras is perceived to be much less than it used to be.

When you're executing a very high level, small tweaks can matter again. For example Todd notes differences in small parts changes on his test guns that I probably would never be able to observe. Of course his detailed tracking helps in this, too.

[Aray]

As a new shooter, small improvements/differences can have a big impact in shootability in a pistol. The downside is that as a new guy it's nigh on to impossible to know exactly what's worthwhile and what isn't, and more importantly, why. That's why inexperience (and often, laziness) encourages folks to chase doo-dads instead of skills, and often they find they get "great results" from stuff that is really a gimmick, hindrance, or otherwise crappy part. Many never get out of this phase.

As you get the fundamentals down pat, and are getting to be a good shooter, you find that many of the differences you used to worry about don't matter as much. If you understand the core skills and how to execute them, you can pick up an unfamiliar or non-ideal pistol and still make it work. So the importance of the extras is perceived to be much less than it used to be.

When you're executing a very high level, small tweaks can matter again. For example Todd notes differences in small parts changes on his test guns that I probably would never be able to observe. Of course his detailed tracking helps in this, too.

Very well put. I'm sure that when/if I'm in the hunt for a FAST Coin there will be a great reason for me to chase these things. Right now, gear will not get me there. The path from Pin to Coin is long and not gear driven, IMHO.

[JSGlock34]

As a new shooter, small improvements/differences can have a big impact in shootability in a pistol. The downside is that as a new guy it's nigh on to impossible to know exactly what's worthwhile and what isn't, and more importantly, why. That's why inexperience (and often, laziness) encourages folks to chase doo-dads instead of skills, and often they find they get "great results" from stuff that is really a gimmick, hindrance, or otherwise crappy part. Many never get out of this phase.

Well said. I think a key is to not focus on minutiae - particularly for new shooters. Sometimes I've seen well meaning individuals post that they are buying their first Glock, and within a page people are telling them to switch out connectors, put in extended controls and install a steel guide rod. With carbines the potential for silliness is even worse, as the Lego-like configuration of the modern AR15 makes it far too easy for new shooters to get lost in the accessory aisle.

[ToddG]

It was an emotional realization not a quantifiable one.

Not to disagree with you when you're trying to agree with me, but I disagree. It seems like it was a very rational observation on your part.

Just like refining technique, refining the trigger itself is a matter of degree. Someone with a horrible trigger press can get the best benefit by learning how to press the trigger properly. Someone with a gritty, stagey action can get a lot of benefit from switching to a more shootable action.

The guy with horrible skill isn't going to see a huge on-demand improvement by changing from a nice 5.2# trigger to a nice 4.9# trigger. And at the same time, the guy whose trigger manipulation skills are extremely high is going to see more improvement going from a bad trigger to a good one than by trying to eek another iota of smoothness out of his finger movement.

That's why you see so many people advocate using a .22 revolver (with a long, heavy, but smooth trigger pull) as a training aide for learning proper trigger manipulation. It's harder but it's still a good trigger that doesn't work against you.

[David Armstrong]

IIRC, the standard old Gunsite response to "what modifications do I need to make" was something along the lines of a smooth trigger pull, easily seen sights, and whatever was needed for reliability. I've not seen much need to disagree with that for a fighting gun. As others mentioned, for competition purposes when small fractions of a second or small fractions of an inch make a big difference, yes, maybe then.

[Aray]

Not to disagree with you when you're trying to agree with me, but I disagree. It seems like it was a very rational observation on your part.

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Here's my Necro Thread as requested by Jay. I love it because Todd was [ToddVoice]SOOOOOOOOO[/ToddVoice]
being Todd.