It seems odd to me a department that could reproduce the problems would go with an aftermarket trigger fix instead of just getting different guns.
It seems odd to me a department that could reproduce the problems would go with an aftermarket trigger fix instead of just getting different guns.
I believe he is in Canada. The FDE guns make me think he is doing a contract class for Canadian Military Special Forces.Originally Posted by Tokarev
Stoeger may well just be passing on what the guys he is training are telling him but that doesn’t mean that information is accurate.
Prior to the entire Canadian Military adopting the P320, JTF-2, Canada’s version of Delta, adopted the 320 to replace their P226s. A JTF-2 member had an ND in a holster with a 320.
TLDR the Canadian military determined the ND was a result of using a modified P226 holster for the 320 and that no technical failure of the pistol occurred.
Canada subsequently adopted a P320 variant as the standard service pistol of the entire Canadian military.
Special units often have latitude to use after market or non standard parts and a holster / foreign object induced ND would explain a desire for a tabbed trigger regardless of its lack of effect on drop safety.
https://canadianarmytoday.com/specia...st%20November.
Special Forces pistol discharge not caused by technical failure
Canadian Special Operations Forces Command confirmed June 30 that an improper holster was a contributing factor in the accidental discharge of a new Sig Sauer P320 pistol which resulted in a minor leg wound to a Joint Task Force 2 (JTF-2) member last November.
“No technical failure occurred within the pistol,” CANSOMCOM told Canadian Army Today. It had functioned “per the requirements as demonstrated by the weapons technical experts who trialed thousands of rounds without a reoccurrence.”
The incident with the P320 – a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals – occurred at JTF-2’s Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s.
Even though the probability of a recurrence is “assessed to be extremely low,” CANSOFCOM said it has ordered a third-party “safety/risk assessment . . . before taking a final decision on a way forward.” It expects this to take “a number of months” during which it’s understood the P226s will remain in service.
“The investigation concluded the primary probable cause of the incident was due to a partial depression of the trigger by a foreign object combined with simultaneous movement of the slide against the pistol frame that then allowed a round to be fired whilst the pistol was still holstered,” CANSOFCOM said in an email.
“The investigation also determined that the previously issued holster employed at the time had not been modified for the new pistol. While the investigation concluded the use of a holster not specifically designed for the new weapon was found to be a contributing factor, it determined the use of any other holster would not necessarily have prevented the incident.”
However, the initial investigation yielded several recommendations, including how “leading-edge equipment” is purchased and how weapons are modified. “Central to the decision on the way forward is ensuring our members’ utmost confidence in the effectiveness and safety of their equipment and weapons.”
CANSOFCOM’s explanation essentially echoed an explanation issued in February by Sig Sauer, which had been the target of several lawsuits in the United States over the P320, which it has made since 2014.
The German company – which has U.S. headquarters in New Hampshire and a Canadian distributor, M.D. Charleton, in Victoria, B.C. – said in that statement “the investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a P320” and that “the use of a modified P226 created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster.”
Lately, in areas outside his demonstrated area of expertise which is technical shooting, I take Ben's words seriously but not literally.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
I don’t really take him seriously at all anymore. It’s been awhile actually.
What prompted this little essay?
https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/safety...rs-for-pistols
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
I watched the video. Ben makes it pretty clear that 'this is what these guys are telling me'. So @HCM is spot on there.
I think its increasingly likely that Sig will at some point introduce a tabbed trigger safety to the market.
https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/safety...rs-for-pistols
I've literally been saying this for nearly three years.
Apparently SIG has now figured it out.
Put the damn tab (trigger safety) on the trigger like you should have done in the first place!
I am not directly defending or attacking any manufacturer.
Alright, question on Glocks, how much of the trigger is on either side of the "tab"? When I measured my Gen 3 Glock 23, it was .174 (I did it with a slide ruler, not in a lab). The reason I ask is that I really question whether a tabbed trigger will prevent discharges. As I look at the Glock trigger, it would require a short/small object to make limited contact with the trigger to prevent a discharge.
There have been many stories of guns going off in holsters because something made contact with enough leverage to discharge the gun. I don't believe a tab will prevent these discharges of any striker-fired handgun except for the most rare cases.
I agree that a safety tab stopping an ND is pretty marginal, but I'll make 2 observations.
I think the curved nature of the Glock trigger across the face on both sides of the trigger safety could be one of those tiny angels on the head of a pin factors in an outlier event.
More realistically, any trigger safety prevents friction on the SIDE of the trigger shoe from pulling the trigger. Bubba using a bad leather or nylon holster, gun in a holster in a bag ,and foreign object in a WML holster, that could be a real factor.
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