Suggested Par Times

[jeffreywt]

Can anyone provide some suggestions for par times on specific drills?

I'm looking for things like:

Hands relaxed at sides, draw to first shot/sight picture - 1.6 seconds
Hands relaxed at sides, draw to first shot/sight picture, reload, second shot/sight picture - 3.7 seconds

Those times might be slow for some or most folks here. They are examples and happen to be the times I can do those two drills in on a consistent and smooth basis.

My apologies if this has been covered previously. I searched but didn't come up with anything similar. I guess this is asking what other types of things can I practice against a par time and what types of numbers should I be aiming for?

Thanks!

[Ben Stoeger]

Can anyone provide some suggestions for par times on specific drills?

I'm looking for things like:

Hands relaxed at sides, draw to first shot/sight picture - 1.6 seconds
Hands relaxed at sides, draw to first shot/sight picture, reload, second shot/sight picture - 3.7 seconds

Those times might be slow for some or most folks here. They are examples and happen to be the times I can do those two drills in on a consistent and smooth basis.

My apologies if this has been covered previously. I searched but didn't come up with anything similar. I guess this is asking what other types of things can I practice against a par time and what types of numbers should I be aiming for?

Thanks!

Your holster, gun, mag pouches, targets, and target distance all sort of factor in.

1.6 seconds would be pretty good out of an ankle holster but not great out of an open topped strong side holster.

[jeffreywt]

Your holster, gun, mag pouches, targets, and target distance all sort of factor in.

In my case, a typical production setup:

Blade-tech DOH, Glock 17, CR Speed pouches, IPSC silhouette, 7 yards

Or were you implying that it's sort of unanswerable? I can see how all that would factor in. I'm just trying to find a goal and some ideas for what to do using par times.

Thanks!

[CCT125US]

If you are simply looking for some drills to try I might suggest working your way through these....
http://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay...ll-of-the-Week

As well as...
http://pistol-training.com/drills

As to your specific question, the times you list would be good from concealment at 7yds to a 3x5 card.

And welcome to the forum

[DonovanM]

Are you talking dry fire or live fire?

Also depends on your goals and the amount of time you have/want to dedicate to it. If you're busting your ass every day out for world domination, your long term goal should be in the area of .6/1.4 on those drills. 4s El Pres, 1.6s Bill drill.

But if you're only looking as far ahead as A class - which is perfectly fine - I would try for 1/2.3 - 2.5 for those. 6.5-7s El Pres, 2.2s Bill drill.

I would recommend getting Steve Anderson's dry fire books. They're full of drills to try - dry and live - with scaled par times for all of them to shoot for so you can really track your progress.

Good luck. Don't get discouraged, it's easy to

[JFK]

Can anyone provide some suggestions for par times on specific drills?

Hands relaxed at sides, draw to first shot/sight picture - 1.6 seconds
Hands relaxed at sides, draw to first shot/sight picture, reload, second shot/sight picture - 3.7 seconds

Those times might be slow for some or most folks here. They are examples and happen to be the times I can do those two drills in on a consistent and smooth basis.

I think you are on the right track already. Unless the drill you are shooting calls for a specific par time I would set your own. Use a scientific method though. Shoot the drill you want without a par time several times as fast as you can while still getting your hits. Track all your data and then take an average of this. Then set a par time that is "hard" but doable and go from there.

For example on your hands relaxed at sides, draw to first shot/sight picture, reload, second shot/sight picture:
Lets say you shoot it six times and your times were, 3.89, 3.90, 3.70, 3.55, 3.14, 3.65 it would give you an average time of 3.63. It would be reasonable to say your par time should be 3.6 or 3.5.

I do this and if I am 80 - 90 % under par and still getting my hits (fast is no good without hits) then I reduce my par. If I fall below 70% par, or 80% hits then I raise my par.

The big thing is tracking from session to session. That is the only way you can push yourself to see improvement. Once I started doing this I notice massive improvement.

[ToddG]

Can anyone provide some suggestions for par times on specific drills?

To what purpose?

I could easily say "really good guys can draw in x.yz seconds!" So what? Maybe you're nowhere near good enough for that. Maybe you're right on the cusp of that. Maybe you can already blow that away.

Establish your baseline -- what you can do consistently on demand today, not your one-time personal best -- and then work to improve that incrementally. Set your goals based on your performance.

[beltjones]

The main point seems to be "it's relative." It's relative to what gun you're using and what equipment you're using and what target you're shooting at and how far away it is and your current skill level and so on.

The main thing to be asking is, "Out of my Production rig shooting at a USPSA metric target at 7 yards my draw is 1.6 seconds. What do I need to work on to get it down to XX seconds?"

There has been some good advice here so far, but one of the keys is really troubleshooting everything with the draw and reload. If you find yourself missing your current par time, rather than raising the time, figure out why you're going slower than you were before. There is loads of material out there, and also loads of bad info.

For example, watch Bob Vogel's draw and reload or Ben Stoeger's draw and reload in the FAST wars threads. Do they look like the common wisdom for drawing and reloading? No they don't. There is no "press out," there is no super high reload with the gun inches from your nose, and yet they are somehow much much faster. The key is to simplify everything, not make it more difficult with a five step draw or some complicated reload procedure. Simply seek economy of motion, get smooth and consistent, practice efficiently, and watch the tenths of seconds fall off your times.

[GOP]

Par times are meant to be broken.

I repeatedly push myself to the limits of my performance in training, and it pays off. I'm a huge fan of drills and such with a scoring element, I don't like pass/fail type tests or par times because they usually cater to a lower skill level or encourage skill maintenance. Pick a par time, beat it, set a lower par time, beat it, set a lower par time, beat it, set a world record, beat it, etc. I think that is a much better mentality to have.

[Ben Stoeger]

In my case, a typical production setup:

Blade-tech DOH, Glock 17, CR Speed pouches, IPSC silhouette, 7 yards

Or were you implying that it's sort of unanswerable? I can see how all that would factor in. I'm just trying to find a goal and some ideas for what to do using par times.

Thanks!

Your question is totally answerable.

.8 seconds for a hands at side draw to a sight picture (not a shot) is very easy for guys that train. .6 seconds is common at the upper levels.