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Thread: The Sanford Florida incident....

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Mr. Zimmerman's predicament here brings up some pretty important lessons for those inclined to learn from the circumstances of others.

    Let's stipulate for the sake of illustration that Mr. Zimmerman's actions were 100% justifiable, and that at the moment he pulled the trigger he was in reasonable fear for his life.

    Was it worth it?

    Look at what he's facing now. He's been branded a murderer. Worse, he's been branded a racist murderer. Where a rap artist or NBA star who kills somebody will be forgiven in the public consciousness as long as their new album is critically acclaimed or their stats are good, Mr. Zimmerman's life from now on will come to be defined by this moment when he killed what a huge chunk of the population will only ever believe was an innocent young black boy who was doing nothing wrong. Mr. Zimmerman is looking down the pointy end of criminal and civil liability out the wazoo. His physical and financial freedom are both now at stake. There's enormous pressure in some communities to basically lynch the man because some communities won't care about the facts, only that the outcome wasn't desirable in their view. Hell, even among self defense enthusiasts this guy's getting raked over the coals. (Perhaps deservedly...we don't know all the facts yet) If a guy who claims he acts in self defense isn't getting a whole lot of sympathy from people who are all about self defense, what hope does he have with a jury?

    All of this...for what?

    This is the bit about self defense that lots of people on the internet don't get. In all their "be a man!" and "sheepdog!" chest thumping, they never seem to get around to the question of what it's like to live with the aftermath of using lethal force. It's not pretty. It's expensive. It's time consuming. It is life-changing...and not in the Oprah self help guru sort of way. It introduces unbelievable levels of stress into the mix that you can hardly appreciate if you haven't been at the center of it before. It can ruin marriages. It can break apart families. It can scatter friends to the four winds.

    I know some people who have had to use lethal force to defend themselves and have had to face long drawn out investigations and litigation over the incidents. It put unbelievable stress on their lives. I asked one police officer how he managed to hold it together after having gone through a post-shooting horror story that makes the blood run cold. His answer?

    "Because I know with absolute certainty that I did the right thing."

    If you deal with something you had to deal with because it was thrust upon you, leaving you with no choice in the matter...well...it's probably a lot easier to live with the aftermath if it goes to Zimmerman levels. So we would do well to ask ourselves if whatever it is we are about to do is worth living a Zimmerman.

    I'd gladly risk a Zimmerman situation if it meant saving the life of a friend or a loved one. Over petty theft, though? Not so much.

  2. #102
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Mr. Zimmerman's predicament here brings up some pretty important lessons for those inclined to learn from the circumstances of others.

    Let's stipulate for the sake of illustration that Mr. Zimmerman's actions were 100% justifiable, and that at the moment he pulled the trigger he was in reasonable fear for his life.

    Was it worth it?

    Look at what he's facing now. He's been branded a murderer. Worse, he's been branded a racist murderer. Where a rap artist or NBA star who kills somebody will be forgiven in the public consciousness as long as their new album is critically acclaimed or their stats are good, Mr. Zimmerman's life from now on will come to be defined by this moment when he killed what a huge chunk of the population will only ever believe was an innocent young black boy who was doing nothing wrong. Mr. Zimmerman is looking down the pointy end of criminal and civil liability out the wazoo. His physical and financial freedom are both now at stake. There's enormous pressure in some communities to basically lynch the man because some communities won't care about the facts, only that the outcome wasn't desirable in their view. Hell, even among self defense enthusiasts this guy's getting raked over the coals. (Perhaps deservedly...we don't know all the facts yet) If a guy who claims he acts in self defense isn't getting a whole lot of sympathy from people who are all about self defense, what hope does he have with a jury?

    All of this...for what?

    This is the bit about self defense that lots of people on the internet don't get. In all their "be a man!" and "sheepdog!" chest thumping, they never seem to get around to the question of what it's like to live with the aftermath of using lethal force. It's not pretty. It's expensive. It's time consuming. It is life-changing...and not in the Oprah self help guru sort of way. It introduces unbelievable levels of stress into the mix that you can hardly appreciate if you haven't been at the center of it before. It can ruin marriages. It can break apart families. It can scatter friends to the four winds.

    I know some people who have had to use lethal force to defend themselves and have had to face long drawn out investigations and litigation over the incidents. It put unbelievable stress on their lives. I asked one police officer how he managed to hold it together after having gone through a post-shooting horror story that makes the blood run cold. His answer?

    "Because I know with absolute certainty that I did the right thing."

    If you deal with something you had to deal with because it was thrust upon you, leaving you with no choice in the matter...well...it's probably a lot easier to live with the aftermath if it goes to Zimmerman levels. So we would do well to ask ourselves if whatever it is we are about to do is worth living a Zimmerman.

    I'd gladly risk a Zimmerman situation if it meant saving the life of a friend or a loved one. Over petty theft, though? Not so much.
    Dude, I am begging you to let me cut'n'paste that with proper attribution at my blog. That's frickin' gold right there. It should come printed on the back of CCW permits.
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  3. #103
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    TC you're a genius, and have permanently lost the right to claim "Oh I can't really write anyway. " Very, very well said.
    I agree with your take on the "sheepdog" thing. I'm a sheepdog alright, for MY family, not anyone else's.

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  4. #104
    Member rsa-otc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickA View Post
    TC you're a genius, and have permanently lost the right to claim "Oh I can't really write anyway. " Very, very well said.
    I agree with your take on the "sheepdog" thing. I'm a sheepdog alright, for MY family, not anyone else's.

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
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  5. #105
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    Sheepdogs are disposable, sometimes single use tools.

    Are people really that sure they want to be one? I'm just sayin...

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell, Esq. View Post
    Sheepdogs are disposable, sometimes single use tools.

    Are people really that sure they want to be one? I'm just sayin...
    Exactly. A sheepdog torn apart by wolves had it easy compared to what Zimmerman is going to go through.
    I have no intention of wandering the earth like a cross between a Great Pyrenees and Kwai Chang Caine, saving the innocent.

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  7. #107
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    A more serious threat, but happier outcome:

    http://www.ajc.com/news/man-with-kni...s-1394728.html

    A Covington woman fought off a butcher-knife-wielding man who tried to kidnap her and her grandchild in broad daylight in a craft store parking lot in Conyers Wednesday.

    "She said she wasn't going to let anything happen to that baby," Conyers Police Chief Gene Wilson told the Rockdale County News.

    A suspect is being held in the Rockdale County Jail and faces charges in the kidnapping, Wilson told the newspaper.

    Wilson told the newspaper that the woman, who is in her 50s, walked out of Hobby Lobby on Ga. Highway 138 at about 4 p.m. Wednesday to her car, which was parked near the front of the store. The woman put the child in the car and then went around to the driver's side door. The suspect came up and held the knife to the woman's throat in an apparent attempt to take her, the car and the child inside the car, Wilson told the newspaper.

    Wilson said the woman saved herself by screaming and continuing to scream. When people came to the woman's aid, the suspect dropped the knife and fled in a rental car. A passerby jumped in his car and followed the suspect south on Ga. 138 until the suspect ditched the car behind a U.S. Post Office, Wilson told the newspaper.

    Police caught the suspect a short time later, Wilson said.
    The suspect, who is believed to be from Atlanta and in his 20s, has been charged with armed robbery, kidnapping and endangering a child, Wilson said. He said the suspect would be identified through fingerprints after he gave police two different names.

    Wilson told the newspaper the suspect was wearing two pairs of pants and had latex gloves and wire ties to use as handcuffs on him.

    He said the victim sustained bruises to her arms and emotional trauma.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  8. #108
    Site Supporter LOKNLOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell, Esq. View Post
    Sheepdogs are disposable, sometimes single use tools.

    Are people really that sure they want to be one? I'm just sayin...
    That's an interesting point.

    Funny how there is discussion in the Pets! thread about dogs, no matter how loved, being (consumable) defenders first and friends second in dire circumstances, but this is the first time I've seen that cross-referenced to ourselves...
    --Josh
    “Formerly we suffered from crimes; now we suffer from laws.” - Tacitus.

  9. #109
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    But Zimmerman's case is nothing like the one just referenced in Conyers/Covington is it?
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOKNLOD View Post
    That's an interesting point.

    Funny how there is discussion in the Pets! thread about dogs, no matter how loved, being (consumable) defenders first and friends second in dire circumstances, but this is the first time I've seen that cross-referenced to ourselves...
    Everyone is into the animal metaphor thing, so here's mine: Be a house cat.

    Avoid problems, and when they come to you hide, and have the bigger, dumber dog or the equally stupid human handle it for you if at all possible.

    If that isn't possible, then go over, around, under or through the problem as violently as possible.

    If you need to attack, then strike without warning, and never, ever fight...just do the job and run like hell.

    Then, look cute and cuddly, vomit on the floor (which the human will clean up) then lay in the sun till someone drops catnip on you, then get hight and twitch for an hour.

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