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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    The biggest red flag for me in the media's reporting... the only picture we have of Trayvon is when he was 13 years old?
    The police report lists him as 17 years old, 6' tall 160#, that's a full grown man.
    Where is a recent picture of Trayvon and why isn't the media plastering it on the front page?

    This story is nothing more than a liberal feeding frenzy.
    And it pisses me off to see otherwise intelligent people get suckered into buying their story line hook, line and sinker.
    Step back and try to view this with skeptical eyes.

    I'm not jumping on the Zimmerman bandwagon, but I'm damn sure not ready to lynch him based on the crappy reporting we've had so far.

    I agree.

  2. #92
    Some of the 911 tapes transcribed with some of the time line filled in:

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012...lorida-teen-is-shot/

    911 calls paint picture of chaos after Florida teen is shot

    The death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed teen who was shot while walking in his neighborhood in Sanford, Florida, has sparked allegations of racial profiling and calls for the gunman to be charged.

    Federal prosecutors and the FBI will investigate the incident.

    George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who has acknowledged shooting Martin, has not been charged and says it was self-defense.

    Martin, 17, was killed while walking to his father's fiancee's house in Sanford from a nearby convenience store.

    Zimmerman first called police at 7:09 p.m. ET with concerns about a suspicious teen in the area, according to 911 tapes released by the Seminole County Sheriff's Department.

    A 16-year-old girl who was on the phone with Martin most of the day last spoke to him around the time the incident allegedly began and lasted until 7:16 p.m. ET, when the call dropped. Almost immediately, 911 calls began coming in. Police arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m.

    Several witnesses called 911 at 7:16, 7:17, 7:18 and 7:19 p.m. ET.

    Below are the transcripts of the calls as Zimmerman and witnesses describe what they saw and heard that night:

    7:09 p.m. ET

    Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

    Zimmerman: "We had some break-ins in our neighborhood ... and there is a real suspicious guy. ... This guy looks like he's up to no good, he's on drugs or something. It's raining, and he's walking around looking about. "

    Dispatcher: "Is this guy white, black, Hispanic?"

    Zimmerman: "He looks black."

    Dispatcher: "Did you see what he's wearing?"

    Zimmerman: "A dark hoodie, grey hoodie, jeans or sweatpants or white shoes. He's walking around staring at the houses. Now he's just staring at me."

    Dispatcher: "Location?"

    Zimmerman: "He's near the clubhouse right now. Now he's coming towards me. He has his hands in his waistband. He is a black male. Something's wrong with him. Yep. He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Send officers over here."

    Dispatcher: "Let me know if he does anything else."

    Zimmerman: "These a**holes, they always get away. When you come in go straight to the left ... when you pass the clubhouse ..."

    Dispatcher: "Clubhouse?"

    Zimmerman: "Go straight in. Oh, s***. He's running ... down towards the other entrance of neighborhood."

    Dispatcher: "He's running? Which way is he running?"

    Zimmerman: "Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood."

    Dispatcher: "Which entrance is that, that he is running towards?

    Zimmerman: "The back entrance."

    [inaudible]

    Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"

    Zimmerman: "Yeah."

    Dispatcher: "OK. We don't need you to do that. What's your name?"

    Zimmerman: "George. Zimmerman."

    Dispatcher: "Do you want to meet with the officer ..."

    Zimmerman: "Tell them to come past the clubhouse and make a left then past mailboxes and they will see my truck ..."

    Dispatcher: "What's your apartment number?"

    Zimmerman: "It's a home. ... I don't want to give that out. I don't know who this kid is."

    Dispatcher: "I will let them know where to meet you."

    Zimmerman: "Have them call me, and I will let you know where I'm at."

    ------

    During part of this time, Martin is on the phone with a 16-year-old girl. Below is an account of the phone call as relayed to In Session's Sunny Hostin by a lawyer for the Martin family:

    Martin told the girl someone was following him, and she advised him to run. Martin said he isn't going to run but will walk quickly. Zimmerman caught up with him, and Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him. Zimmerman then asked Martin his name and why he was there. The girl on the phone says she heard Zimmerman push Martin, and then the call drops. She tried to call Martin back, but he didn't respond.

    ------

    7:16 p.m. ET

    Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

    Caller: "Maybe both. I'm not sure. There's just someone screaming outside."

    Dispatcher: "Is it a male or female?"

    Caller: "It sounds like a male."

    Dispatcher: "You don't know why?"

    Caller: "I don't know why. I think they are yelling 'help,' but I don't know. Just end someone quick, please."

    Dispatcher: "Does he look hurt to you?"

    Caller: "I can't see him. I don't want to go out there. I don't know what's going on."

    Dispatcher: "So you think he's yelling help?"

    Caller: "Yes. There's gunshots."

    Dispatcher: "How many?"

    Caller: "Just one."

    [inaudible]

    Dispatcher: "Is he right outside?"

    Caller: "Yes. Pretty much out the back, yes."

    Dispatcher: "Is he in front of it or behind it?"

    Caller: "He's behind my house."

    Dispatcher: "I don't hear him yelling anymore. Do you hear anything?"

    Caller: "No, I don't because I'm hiding upstairs. The gunshot was outside our house. You sent somebody, right?"

    Dispatcher: "Do you hear any vehicles leaving or anything else?

    Caller: "There's people yelling down there, but I don't want to go down there."

    Dispatcher: "People are yelling now?"

    Caller: "Yeah."

    Dispatcher: "We do have officers on the way. Call us back if you see any vehicles leaving or anything."

    ------

    7:16 p.m. ET

    Dispatcher: "Police, fire or medical?"

    Caller: "There's someone screaming outside."

    Dispatcher: "Is that at where you are at?"

    Caller: "Oh, my God, there is a gunshot, hurry up."

    [inaudible]

    Dispatcher: "Do you see anybody? I don't need you to go outside."

    Caller: "There is someone screaming. I just heard a gunshot."

    Dispatcher: "Do you see anything? I don't need you to go outside. Do you hear screaming or anything?"

    Caller: "Hurry up, they are right outside my house."

    Dispatcher: "OK, we [have] police and emergency, OK. Are you in Sanford?"

    Caller: "I see police now."

    Dispatcher: "You see the officer?"

    Caller: "Yeah, but like it's behind the house. There is a dead body there. It's not the front entrance. Oh, my God."

    Dispatcher: "Please tell me so I can tell them."

    Caller: "If you are looking at my house, it's behind by my back porch."

    Dispatcher: "Coming from behind your house?"

    Caller: "Yes, the back porch."

    Dispatcher: "Stay on the line and update me."

    Caller: "I just heard screaming and a gunshot."

    Dispatcher: "We have an officer there. Did you hear any more gunshots?"

    Caller: "No, I don't hear. Hurry up, hurry up."

    Dispatcher: "OK, we have officers out there, OK? If anything changes, give us a call back, but we do have officers there. One officer is there."

    Caller: "OK, did he see anything?"

    Dispatcher: "I'm not sure, ma'am, I just know he is there, and two other officers are on their way, OK? If anything changes or anything more, call us back. As far as you know, it's coming from behind your house near your back-porch area? When you hear screaming, was it screaming of female or male?"

    Caller: "Male."

    Dispatcher: "So, when you heard screaming, it was a male screaming?"

    Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."

    Dispatcher: "What do you mean guy on top? Did you see a fight?"

    Caller: "I don't know, I just looked out my window, and there was a guy on top wearing a white t-shirt."

    Dispatcher: "A white t-shirt. Did you see what kind of pants? He was on top of what?"

    Caller: "I couldn't see the person he was on."

    Dispatcher: "But he was on top of a person?"

    Caller: "Yes."

    Dispatcher: "The guy with the white t-shirt, did he get up and run?"

    Caller: "I don't know. Went to the phone to call you

    Dispatcher: "White, black or Hispanic?"

    Caller: "I couldn't tell, it was completely dark."

    Dispatcher: "We have several units en route."

    Caller: "Thank you."

    7:17 p.m. ET

    Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

    Caller: "I’m looking out my deck, and someone is screaming 'help,' and I don’t know. … I heard a bang. I’m looking out my window, out my backyard, and someone is yelling and screaming 'help.' "

    Dispatcher: "You are not the only person calling. We have more than one officer on the scene and another on the way."

    Caller: "Oh, my God. I see the person now. I see him walking. There’s a man coming out and people coming out with flashlights. Oh, my God. I don’t know what he did to this person. I can see there is a man walking out with a flashlight right now."

    Dispatcher: "Was it a male or female voice?"

    Caller: "The man is up right now. Someone is coming over. I’m glad other people called."

    Dispatcher: "We should be out there right now."

    Caller: "I can open my window and hear it."

    Dispatcher: "You can still hear it?"

    Caller: "I don’t know what is happening. Someone is laying on the ground."

    Dispatcher: "What’s happening? Someone is on the ground? Someone has been shot? Calm down, stay on the line with me. Like I said, we have an officer on the scene, and we have other officers on the line."

    Caller: "Oh, my God. They better hurry up. Someone is on the ground. Oh, my God! I see out my back window, sidewalk, grass, something is really bad. There is a man out here with a flashlight."

    Dispatcher: "Is this person laying down in the street?"

    Caller: "No, it's from my back window."

    Dispatcher: "So is the person laying down in the street or in the grass?"

    Caller: "The grass. Oh, my God! I think there is another gentleman with a flashlight. ... I think police. Oh, my God! He shot, he shot the person.He says he shot the person. He said he shot the person."

    Dispatcher: "Who saying they shot who?"

    Caller: "The people out there, a guy is raising his hands up, he's saying he shot a person. I think it's a police officer that's with him right now. arrest - uh - oh, my God, why - why (inaudible)"

    Dispatcher: "Our officer is there, he has somebody at gunpoint. They're going to handle the situation from here."

    Caller: "Oh! Oh, my God, somebody would be shot!"

    Dispatcher: "It's probably going to be best if you stay inside your home for the time being, OK?"

    Caller:" I know. I can't believe somebody's killed. He was saying help. Why didn't someone come out and help him?"

    Dispatcher: "Listen, we don't know if they been killed ..."

    Caller: "Yes, the person is dead, laying on the ground."

    Dispatcher: "Just because he's laying on the ground don't mean he's passed. We have an ambulance on the way, and we are probably going to pick him up and take him to the hospital."

    Caller: "I didn't see cause it was too dark, and I just heard people screaming 'help me, help me.' And this person shot him! He was like wrestling with him, you know what I mean, on the ground, from what I can see it was very dark. The man didn't try to run away or anything. I don't want to be a witness or anything. I'm scared. Oh, my god, a young boy, I can't imagine, I haven't seen anyone killed. This is a nice neighborhood. Oh, my God, I'm too scared to live here."

    Dispatcher: "You don't have to worry right now. We have many officers on the way. Two officers on scene right now, we are on scene, OK?"

    -----

    7:17 p.m. ET

    Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

    Caller: "Police. I just heard a shot behind my house. They are wrestling outside the back of my porch."

    Dispatcher: "You just heard one shot go off?""

    Caller: "It was either that or a rock at the window or something else. The guy's yelling 'help,' and I'm not going to help."

    Dispatcher: "So you can hear someone yelling for help?"

    Caller: "I'm pretty sure the guy is dead out here. Holy s***"

    Dispatcher: "OK, we have several people calling in. Anything else that you heard?"

    Caller: "A guy yelling, 'help.' Oh, my God! There is a guy with a flashlight in the backyard now. I think there's flashlights and a guy. ... I don't know if that's a cop. "

    Dispatcher: "OK, we have several calls. Are you sure when you heard voices it was one person yelling, right?"

    Caller: "There were two guys in the yard with flashlights, and there is a black guy down like he's been shot, and he's dead."

    Dispatcher: "I have several officers going out there."

    ----–

    7:17 p.m. ET

    Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

    Caller: "Medical. I think someone has been shot."

    Dispatcher: "Why do you think someone has been shot?"

    Caller: "Because they are laying in the backyard and a gunshot and they said 'call 911.' Now there are people coming with flashlights ..."

    Dispatcher: "And it's in the backyard?"

    Caller: "Yes."

    Dispatcher: "And someone is laying in the backyard?"

    Caller: "Yes, there are people around him now."

    Dispatcher: "You there with kids?"

    Caller: "Yes, my daughter. He is a black guy."

    Dispatcher: "We have units on the way. What do you mean it's a black guy?"

    Caller: "There is a black male standing over him."

    Dispatcher: "Can you tell me what he's wearing?"

    Caller: "I think someone else called 911."

    Dispatcher: "You do see officers out there?"

    Caller: "Yeah, I think that's the flashlights that we see."

    -----–

    7:18 p.m. ET

    Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

    Caller: "This is 911, correct? Police or medical. Someone is yelling two doors down from me, screaming, hollering 'help, help, help.' There is an elderly man that lives down there. I don't know. I heard a gunshot. I don't know if it would be ambulance."

    Dispatcher: "How many shots did you hear?"

    Caller: "One."

    Dispatcher: "How long ago?"

    Caller: "As soon as I heard that I picked up the phone and called."

    Dispatcher: "Before calling 911?"

    Caller: "Yes. There is somebody out by my back porch. ... There is someone walking around with a flashlight. The police may already be here. I don't know. Someone is out there with a flashlight, but I did hear something."

    Dispatcher: "We do have units there."

    Caller: "Oh, my God."

    Dispatcher: "And the screaming, was it a male or female you heard?"

    Caller: "It sounded to me like a male, and from what I know and I've been here four years, there is an elderly man that lives like four doors down, um, north of me, and I'm inside."

    Dispatcher: "Do you think it's coming from your area?"

    Caller: "I don't know, ma'am, I'm standing at my back sliding glass door. I don't see anything but a flashlight shining around, but I did hear someone yelling 'help, help, help' or 'oh, my gosh' and something, then moaning and a boom, and I picked up the phone and called."

    Dispatcher: "Did you see or hear anything else like a vehicle pulling away?"

    Caller: "No, ma'am, because I'm in the back, and in the back there is just a walkway. It could have been someone in the front with a car, I don't know, but I was in the back. It was scary. There is someone still back there with flashlights walking around."

    Dispatcher: "There should be someone on the scene ..."

    -----–

    7:19 p.m. ET

    Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

    Caller: "My brother said someone got shot behind our house."

    Dispatcher: "Is your brother out there right now?"

    Caller: "No, he ran in the house."

    Dispatcher: "Do you know who was shot?"

    Caller: "No idea. ... I'm inside. It's behind our house. ... Yeah."

    Dispatcher: "You didn't see or hear anything else? Did you hear the shot?"

    Caller: "I heard something, and my brother ran in the house."

    Dispatcher: "My brother saw it."

    Dispatcher: "What did you see?"

    Caller: "I saw a man laying on the ground screaming who needed help. I was going to go over there to try and help him, but my dog got off the leash, and I ran and got him, and I hurried around and down, and the screaming stopped."

    Dispatcher: "Did you see the person get shot?"

    Caller: "No."

    Dispatcher: Did you know the person who got shot, or did you see the person with the gun?"

    Caller: "No, I just heard a shot, and the screaming stopped."

    -----–

    Officers arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. ET, according to a police report.

    Officers Timothy Smith and Ricardo Alayo said they noted a black male in a gray hooded sweatshirt lying face-down in the grass, as well as a white male in the area.

    "Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed," Smith wrote in a police report.

    Smith said he asked Zimmerman to hand over the weapon, a Kel Tec 9 mm, and handcuffed him.

    "While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and he was covered in grass, as if he was laying on his back on the ground," Smith wrote in the police report. "Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of the head."

    The officers also made several attempts to revive Martin.

    When police put Zimmerman in the back of the cruiser, he said, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me," according to the police report.

    Post by: CNN news blog editor Mallory Simon

  3. #93
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    Why didn't the 13 year old Kansas boy get the same attention after 2 black guys dumped gasoline on him and let him on fire last week? You don't hear anything about this hate crime on Fox news or talk radio.
    "They rushed him on the porch as he tried to get the door open," Coon told KMBC. "(One of them) poured the gasoline, then flicked the Bic, and said, 'This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.'"

    By lighting the gasoline, the second attacker "produced a large fireball burning the face and hair" of the boy, according to a Kansas City Police Department report obtained by KCTV.

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by IRISH View Post
    Why didn't the 13 year old Kansas boy get the same attention after 2 black guys dumped gasoline on him and let him on fire last week? You don't hear anything about this hate crime on Fox news or talk radio.
    Doesn't fit the paradigm we've been told is the only way racially-motivated crimes occur. Hence, irrelevant.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRISH View Post
    Why didn't the 13 year old Kansas boy get the same attention after 2 black guys dumped gasoline on him and let him on fire last week? You don't hear anything about this hate crime on Fox news or talk radio.
    Good thing they didn't have guns, somebody could have gotten hurt.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRISH View Post
    Why didn't the 13 year old Kansas boy get the same attention after 2 black guys dumped gasoline on him and let him on fire last week? You don't hear anything about this hate crime on Fox news or talk radio.
    The Florida story is a liberal reporters wet dream. They get to use the race card against a "white Hispanic, " and they get to bash guns and concealed carry laws. The Kansas City story is just a heinous crime, there is nothing politically advantageous about it.
    Evil requires the sanction of the victim. - Ayn Rand

  7. #97
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    I see a political angle to this story in a battleground state.


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  8. #98
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    Mr. Zimmerman's predicament here brings up some pretty important lessons for those inclined to learn from the circumstances of others.

    Let's stipulate for the sake of illustration that Mr. Zimmerman's actions were 100% justifiable, and that at the moment he pulled the trigger he was in reasonable fear for his life.

    Was it worth it?

    Look at what he's facing now. He's been branded a murderer. Worse, he's been branded a racist murderer. Where a rap artist or NBA star who kills somebody will be forgiven in the public consciousness as long as their new album is critically acclaimed or their stats are good, Mr. Zimmerman's life from now on will come to be defined by this moment when he killed what a huge chunk of the population will only ever believe was an innocent young black boy who was doing nothing wrong. Mr. Zimmerman is looking down the pointy end of criminal and civil liability out the wazoo. His physical and financial freedom are both now at stake. There's enormous pressure in some communities to basically lynch the man because some communities won't care about the facts, only that the outcome wasn't desirable in their view. Hell, even among self defense enthusiasts this guy's getting raked over the coals. (Perhaps deservedly...we don't know all the facts yet) If a guy who claims he acts in self defense isn't getting a whole lot of sympathy from people who are all about self defense, what hope does he have with a jury?

    All of this...for what?

    This is the bit about self defense that lots of people on the internet don't get. In all their "be a man!" and "sheepdog!" chest thumping, they never seem to get around to the question of what it's like to live with the aftermath of using lethal force. It's not pretty. It's expensive. It's time consuming. It is life-changing...and not in the Oprah self help guru sort of way. It introduces unbelievable levels of stress into the mix that you can hardly appreciate if you haven't been at the center of it before. It can ruin marriages. It can break apart families. It can scatter friends to the four winds.

    I know some people who have had to use lethal force to defend themselves and have had to face long drawn out investigations and litigation over the incidents. It put unbelievable stress on their lives. I asked one police officer how he managed to hold it together after having gone through a post-shooting horror story that makes the blood run cold. His answer?

    "Because I know with absolute certainty that I did the right thing."

    If you deal with something you had to deal with because it was thrust upon you, leaving you with no choice in the matter...well...it's probably a lot easier to live with the aftermath if it goes to Zimmerman levels. So we would do well to ask ourselves if whatever it is we are about to do is worth living a Zimmerman.

    I'd gladly risk a Zimmerman situation if it meant saving the life of a friend or a loved one. Over petty theft, though? Not so much.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    Maybe it would have eaten at his soul if he'd done nothing.

    ;-)
    holster-sniffin' Strange Ranger.
    These are but a few examples of why I love this forum.

  10. #100
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    This isn't the first time armed neighborhood watch went wrong. We had a nice incident in Utah a few years ago where a Dad came and shot up the armed neighborhood watchman and paralyzed him. All because the daughter told her Dad that the guys were following her and her friends. Dad freaks and does the "chase them down, vigilante style". Neighborhood watch needs to be WATCHING and calling ONLY. No pursuing, no chasing, no following.


    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Mr. Zimmerman's predicament here brings up some pretty important lessons for those inclined to learn from the circumstances of others.

    Let's stipulate for the sake of illustration that Mr. Zimmerman's actions were 100% justifiable, and that at the moment he pulled the trigger he was in reasonable fear for his life.

    Was it worth it?

    Look at what he's facing now. He's been branded a murderer. Worse, he's been branded a racist murderer. Where a rap artist or NBA star who kills somebody will be forgiven in the public consciousness as long as their new album is critically acclaimed or their stats are good, Mr. Zimmerman's life from now on will come to be defined by this moment when he killed what a huge chunk of the population will only ever believe was an innocent young black boy who was doing nothing wrong. Mr. Zimmerman is looking down the pointy end of criminal and civil liability out the wazoo. His physical and financial freedom are both now at stake. There's enormous pressure in some communities to basically lynch the man because some communities won't care about the facts, only that the outcome wasn't desirable in their view. Hell, even among self defense enthusiasts this guy's getting raked over the coals. (Perhaps deservedly...we don't know all the facts yet) If a guy who claims he acts in self defense isn't getting a whole lot of sympathy from people who are all about self defense, what hope does he have with a jury?

    All of this...for what?

    This is the bit about self defense that lots of people on the internet don't get. In all their "be a man!" and "sheepdog!" chest thumping, they never seem to get around to the question of what it's like to live with the aftermath of using lethal force. It's not pretty. It's expensive. It's time consuming. It is life-changing...and not in the Oprah self help guru sort of way. It introduces unbelievable levels of stress into the mix that you can hardly appreciate if you haven't been at the center of it before. It can ruin marriages. It can break apart families. It can scatter friends to the four winds.

    I know some people who have had to use lethal force to defend themselves and have had to face long drawn out investigations and litigation over the incidents. It put unbelievable stress on their lives. I asked one police officer how he managed to hold it together after having gone through a post-shooting horror story that makes the blood run cold. His answer?

    "Because I know with absolute certainty that I did the right thing."

    If you deal with something you had to deal with because it was thrust upon you, leaving you with no choice in the matter...well...it's probably a lot easier to live with the aftermath if it goes to Zimmerman levels. So we would do well to ask ourselves if whatever it is we are about to do is worth living a Zimmerman.

    I'd gladly risk a Zimmerman situation if it meant saving the life of a friend or a loved one. Over petty theft, though? Not so much.

 

 

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