300 AAC Blackout (BLK) thoughts

[rsilvers]

I'm not sure what the 300 did, or was even supposed to have done, better.

The 300 will expand to 0.60 at 300 yards. The very best 5.56mm ammo expands to 0.40 at 300 yards. 300 has as much energy from a 16 inch barrel as 5.56mm does from a 16 inch - you get 8 inches of barrel for free. 30 caliber bullets have a (much) greater difference in area over 5.56mm than 45 ACP does over 9mm, so big bullet fans will like it. It is also legal for hunting in far more areas. It is for people who want a bump up in terminal effects and better barrier-blind performance compared to 223/5.56mm without having to go to 6.8 SPC, which costs about 40% more for the practice ammo, is much more expensive to reload for, and needs special bolts and magazines. It is the alternate AR caliber which makes the most sense. The benefits are real for 16 inch barrels, and the shorter you go - the greater the benefit gets.

[orionz06]

it was only a matter of time I guess...

The cheap ammo is here, and has been here.

http://www.richiespng.com/product.php?item=136515

That is closer to what the prices were said to be but when I asked you in November you hadn't the slightest idea where to get anything aside from Midway/Brownells for less than $900 a case.

[rsilvers]

Well now you are talking about 4-5 months ago.

I think there is evidence that we made a good effort to deliver on the promises and succeeded. The cheapest 6.8 ammo is 40% more expensive, for example.

[jmjames]

it was only a matter of time I guess...

That is closer to what the prices were said to be but when I asked you in November you hadn't the slightest idea where to get anything aside from Midway/Brownells for less than $900 a case.

I think it is an encouraging sign. I'm rooting for 300 AAC to succeed, because it looks like the right round for the job ballistically and I like the interchangeability with 5.56 stuff. I don't have a horse in the race since I don't own an AR at this time, but I think that if 300 AAC can come down in price, AKs and VZ58s will stop looking attractive to me.

J.Ja

[orionz06]

Well now you are talking about 4-5 months ago.

I think there is evidence that we made a good effort to deliver on the promises and succeeded. The cheapest 6.8 ammo is 40% more expensive, for example.

Did you even read my post?

[rsilvers]

Did you even read my post?

I read the one where you said you felt lied to that cheap ammo was supposed to be here by now, and where you implied the max range was just 100 yards when in fact it is 460 meters by M4 standards, and when the ammo expands to 0.600 and penetrates 20 inches in bare gel at 300 yards even from a 9 inch barrel.

[orionz06]

I feel lied to about the "cheap" ammo that was supposed to be here by now. "Next year" is the drum we are continually beating as people sell uppers. If I had a need for a rifle with a range of 100 yards and it had to be whisper quiet the .300 would be the answer. If I ever get a can for a .308 I will have at least one AR upper with a .300 barrel. Otherwise I am not liking the fact that people are sold the idea that you can shoot the gun suppressed, instantly remove the fast attach AAC can, and then shoot supersonic ammo without having to compensate for height in a major way.

ETA: I have not fired a round from a .300 upper yet. I attempted to acquire 1000 rounds of affordable ammo to use a borrowed upper to shoot a F2S Consulting class in December but was unable to locate a case, even after contacting a few companies with stake in the round.

I can secede the zero issue between rounds if the supplies of ammo were here.

With supersonic ammo I believe it would do this quite well.

it was only a matter of time I guess...




That is closer to what the prices were said to be but when I asked you in November you hadn't the slightest idea where to get anything aside from Midway/Brownells for less than $900 a case.

Did you even read my post?

I read the one where you said you felt lied to that cheap ammo was supposed to be here by now, and where you implied the max range was just 100 yards when in fact it is 460 meters by M4 standards, and when the ammo expands to 0.600 and penetrates 20 inches in bare gel at 300 yards even from a 9 inch barrel.

I quoted all of my posts in this thread, I do not recall mentioning a max range... There was one edit, only to add content.

What are M4 standards? Are we playing number games with energy now?

ETA: Red text above... Looks like I need to cook some crow.

ETA2: Well, 100 yard zero and 13" drop at 150, I would call that close to ~100 yards. It is however on par with 5.56 subsonic loads and quieter, FWIW.

http://www.right2bearammo.com/shop/catalog/pdf/54.pdf

[rsilvers]

ETA2: Well, 100 yard zero and 13" drop at 150, I would call that close to ~100 yards. It is however on par with 5.56 subsonic loads and quieter, FWIW.

Not sure why you are using special low-power ammo for your comparison. 300 AAC Blackout Barnes 110 grain is 2350-2400 fps and a 0.289 BC. You can easily shoot it to 230 yards with no adjustment to your sights, and expands to 0.60 caliber at 300 yards *from a 9 inch barrel* and penetrates 20 inches of bare 10% gel at that range.

M4 standards are by the methods for which the US Army rates the max range of the M4.

So you can call the max range 230 yards. You can call it 300 yards. You can call it 460 meters, but 100 yards - that implies this is a 12 gauge slug gun, when it is a rifle with 16.7% more energy than an AK at 300 yards.

[orionz06]

Not sure why you are using special low-power ammo for your comparison. 300 AAC Blackout Barnes 110 grain is 2350-2400 fps and a 0.289 BC. You can easily shoot it to 230 yards with no adjustment to your sights, and expands to 0.60 caliber at 300 yards *from a 9 inch barrel* and penetrates 20 inches of bare 10% gel at that range.

M4 standards are by the methods for which the US Army rates the max range of the M4.

It was a round that I had trajectory info for and it indicated a 13" difference from 100-150 which led me to call it 100, or just over 100 if you wish.

What are those standards based on, energy, velocity, penetration?

[rsilvers]

The Army rates max range for the M4 based on hit probability, and as 500 meters for a point target.

If the max effective range of the M4 with M855 at 2900 fps is 500 meters, that has 100 inches of drop, 41 inches drift, and 291 ft/lbs of energy at that distance:

A 16 inch 300 AAC BLACKOUT 125 grain at 2220 fps has:
100 inches drop at 440 meters
41 inches drift at 484 meters
291 ft/lbs of energy at 700 meters.

While the 300 AAC Blackout has way more energy, the military goes by hit probability. If we consider that the drift and drop range is correlated with hit probability, and discount the energy advantage of 300 BLK, we get 462 meters for equal hit probability.

Using M4 military standards, the max effective range of 300 AAC Blackout from a 16 inch barrel is 460 meters.

From a 9 inch barrel (2049 fps):
100 inches drop at 410 meters
41 inches drift at 470 meters
291 ft/lbs of energy at 625 meters, so 440 meter max effective range for a 9 inch.
300 BLK from a 9 inch barrel has the same energy at the muzzle as a 14.5 inch barrel M4, and about 5% more energy at 440 meters.