Shooting incidents in the news.

[Shellback]

The way it's being swung around though, at the time the shots were fired (08:25-6)... I can see how an officer could interpret that swing forward as him attempting to raise the gun. Combine that with the 9-1-1 "man with a rifle pointing it at people" call... It's tragic, but I'm not sure their actions were unreasonable. I don't buy the "anything other than immediate compliance" line posted earlier, but the officers do have to act in a reasonable manner. Again, I'm not sure they were unreasonable, at least from the perspective of the tape.

The 9-1-1 caller, though... Not a lot of warm fuzzies about that call.

I'm not trying to insinuate that the officers did anything maliciously.

It appears that at 8:26:56:02 Crawford is shot, due to his legs buckling, and the weapon is vertical, albeit he had just swung it backwards. Only after he's hit does the weapon swing forward @ 56:04 and then it appears as if his head turns. He was perpendicular to the officers, who were approximately 100 ft. away, and it appeared he had no clue that they were there.

To me, the knees buckling, more than likely indicates when he was hit. Admittedly, I'm only guessing from what I see. Anyhow, it looks like they were hopped up on adrenaline, understandably so, and they really rushed things, didn't assess the situation for what it was, and ended up killing some dude farting around with a BB gun.

I'm not trying to infer that the police had any negative intentions or anything of that nature, I don't think they did. But, from what I've seen it looks like a shoot first ask questions later type event. I don't think it was murder, or anything close to it, but I do think it was a mistake.

ETA - I also realize that the only information that the police had to go off of was a 911 call and they thought it was "go time!" But, from what I've seen they didn't take any time to assess the situation and shot a guy who wasn't presenting a threat at the time.

[BaiHu]

Seems like that to me as well, Irish. If it went down the way it looks, they gave the 911 caller too much credit. This should be filed under "trust but verify". Sad for everyone involved.

[cclaxton]

I'm not sure I'm willing to paint with that broad of a brush just yet, but feel free to source this.

Well, the alleged conflict of interest would depend on what the interests of the parties (police + DA's office) actually are. The police's job is to solve a crime. The prosecutor's job is to see that justice be done. "That justice be done" doesn't necessarily mean a conviction, and I know of more than a few prosecutors in my area with a similar mindset.

Where there is the appearance of bias (such as a very close working relationship with the officer/s involved), I would not be opposed to a special counsel being appointed to investigate.

I think we are in agreement here. But just a reference for the close relationship of prosecutors and LE's from the American Bar Association:
Standard 3- 2.7 Relations With Police
(a) The prosecutor should provide legal advice to the police concerning police functions and duties in criminal matters.
(b) The prosecutor should cooperate with police in providing the services of the prosecutor's staff to aid in training police in the performance of their function in accordance with law.

http://www.americanbar.org/publicati...nc_blkold.html

Note that ABA standards are not laws, they are professional standards which CAN result in an ABA hearing and CAN result in any number of sanctions most of which are not a revocation of their license to practice law. Often feelings run strong in these situations where prosecutors are being asked to prosecute LE's that they have worked with closely, often for many years. When you get small jurisdictions this is amplified. And, in small jurisdictions the judges often know the prosecutors and LE's personally. That creates a trinity that is impossible to defend against.

THere should be a law that says prosecutions of crimes by LE's, prosecutors or judges should have an independent counsel and independent investigation to eliminate the possibility of a conflict of interest.
Cody

[Shellback]

An incident I read about in SC this morning. Former Trooper is facing felony charges and 20 years.

[KeeFus]

THere should be a law that says prosecutions of crimes by LE's, prosecutors or judges should have an independent counsel and independent investigation to eliminate the possibility of a conflict of interest.
Cody

LOL! Good luck with that. Most judges are elected...as are the DA's...you should that read as: POLITICIANS.

[cclaxton]

An incident I read about in SC this morning. Former Trooper is facing felony charges and 20 years.

Not only was this a bad shoot, but he was a bad shot...4-5 shots I hear and he only hit him once.
He doesn't deserve to be a cop after this, but he also shouldn't go to prison for it...just my 2 cents.

This is why it is so important to spend the money to train LEO's, and practice, train, practice. I know that the other 99% of LEO's would have handled this properly, but it doesn't help with the image of LEO's as too quick on the trigger.
Cody

[JV_]

He doesn't deserve to be a cop after this, but he also shouldn't go to prison for it...just my 2 cents.

So you've already judged him guilty, without a trial?

I've never seen/read a news story that showed all of the data, and sometimes one little tidbit is all that's needed to change things.

[MDS]

Guys, this isn't the thread to discuss prosecutorial misconduct, nor the nuances of our criminal Justice system in the context of small town politics, nor especially to publish your best guesses about a police officer's intentions and the appropriate sentence for his crimes. There are other threads for that, though some of these conversions make me want to propose a "dead horse" subforum.

For now, though, can we agree to keep this thread about the actual facts of a shooting incident itself, and lessons to be learned from it? For example, today I learned to be more alert and careful when I wave toy guns around in a public place. (No sarcasm, it's not something I'd thought about in connection to handling toy guns at a store.). That's a lesson we can all discuss without cluttering this thread with the same contentious debates that have given this forum such heartburn in the past. If you really need to discuss that, please do it carefully, in a different thread.

Keep it clean, guys, I know you can!

[Shellback]

11 year old girl shoots man attacking her mother. Note, a protective order doesn't do a damn thing.

An 11-year-old girl was called a hero by neighbors Wednesday after she used a handgun to shoot a man who was attacking her mother.

About 4 a.m. Tuesday, Oklahoma City police were called to a home at 3308 SE 89 and found Brandy Moreno, who said she was stabbed by her ex-boyfriend, Leo Henry.

Police said Henry broke into the house and began to attack Moreno until her daughter, Jayda Milsap, 11, shot Henry twice with a handgun. Henry tried to flee from the home after being shot and was found down the street, police said.

Moreno and Henry were both taken to OU Medical Center in serious condition, EMSA spokeswoman Lara O’Leary said. Hospital officials later said they could not confirm or report on the condition of either person...

The neighbor said Henry lived in the home with Moreno, her two children and his three children until last week when Moreno asked for a protective order against Henry.

In her request for a protective order, filed Sept. 18 in Cleveland County District Court, Moreno accused Henry of mistreating three of the children and said she was afraid Henry would hurt her and the children because she reported him to police.

“(Moreno) just showed the girl how to use the gun last week so she could protect herself,” Marsee said.

[BaiHu]

Timely lesson from her mom.