Trump: Welfare Recipients Must Work If Able Bodied

[RoyGBiv]

But not a word of umbrage against them. Just against the workers.

Curious.

I have more angst towards the politicians/lobbyists/PAC's/etc that established the system... Of course many of those are the fat cats to whom you refer.
But my anger is towards the people who allow this system to exist, who gave it life, not necessarily the folks that take advantage of it.
If my competitor takes advantage of a legal "subsidy", my employees might be out of work if I try to complete based on an un-subsidized cost of goods/services.

[JohnO]

I work a block away from the county Welfare, ahem, I mean Assistance Office and there are plenty of pale faces walking in and out who are likely not employees there as the people who work there that get oil changes here drive Neons and Aveos with PA plates, not Lincoln Navigators and Lexuses with NY and Jersey tags.

I was in my local Costco picking up a few items. In line at the registers I notice the couple in line ahead of me. Two shopping carts full to the top and there were plenty of expensive slabs of New York strip and rib eye steaks. They appeared to be Eastern European by the accent I was hearing. The guy had a fleece with some sort of company logo so I figure he has a job. Boy was I surprised when the EBT card came out to pay for all their stuff! It sure is nice to live high off the hog when someone else is paying for it.

Another time at Costco I watched a guy pay with an EBT card. I was headed out right behind him. I didn't know you could drive a big new fancy Mercedes and have suckers pay for your food.

Plus I love how our folks in government removed the stigma of having to pass food stamps. Now everyone has an inconspicuous EBT card. The casual observer figures they are paying with their own money.

[blues]

I was in my local Costco picking up a few items. In line at the registers I notice the couple in line ahead of me. Two shopping carts full to the top and there were plenty of expensive slabs of New York strip and rib eye steaks. They appeared to be Eastern European by the accent I was hearing. The guy had a fleece with some sort of company logo so I figure he has a job. Boy was I surprised when the EBT card came out to pay for all their stuff! It sure is nice to live high off the hog when someone else is paying for it.

Another time at Costco I watched a guy pay with an EBT card. I was headed out right behind him. I didn't know you could drive a big new fancy Mercedes and have suckers pay for your food.

Plus I love how our folks in government removed the stigma of having to pass food stamps. Now everyone has an inconspicuous EBT card. The casual observer figures they are paying with their own money.

In a similar light bulb moment...back in Brooklyn on an investigation I went into this apartment occupied by a (resident alien) subject of investigation and it was filled wall to wall with high end electronics the likes of which I'd never seen. It was like a stereophile's dream come true.

I asked the guy, who was purportedly on the balls of his ass how he could afford such high end gear. He told me that he doesn't pay for it, he just files for bankruptcy...and then told me it was the American way. I didn't know whether to shit or go blind.

On my first government job for the Social Security Administration, I was told by a Spanish speaking claimant who looked like a power lifter that he couldn't work because he was disabled...though what the disability was wasn't clear. He had only a few years of school, had no employment history, never bothered to learn English and told me that we "had to" give it to him as it was his "right". When I asked if it was the obligation of others to support him, he unashamedly said yes.

I got in trouble when I asked him if I got this straight: "You've never worked. Never gone to school. Never learned English and yet need to be on disability. So clear this up for me, what can't you do now that you were able to do before?"

It got a little heated after that and I was sent to the corner to face the wall by my supervisor.

(And that's when I stopped being a recent college grad liberal.)

[NEPAKevin]

ETA: My family also got "government cheese". Decades later I had friends that were familiar with the term, but thought is was just an euphemism and not a literal block of "cheese". Nope, it was real (or as real as processed cheese can be).

Attachment 25329

One of the saddest things I ever heard of was that a little girl was beaten to death over a government cheese sandwich.

The story in the paper didn't mention that detail but IIRC that was what one of the girls in the office who knew Ashley said.

[willie]

And then there are some who scam the government for non legit VA disability benefits.

[Frank R]

It all goes back to the government. If it continues to exist, in its present form, little will change. It will continue to get worse.

[Sensei]

Not my point. The people working those jobs and collecting SNAP would, I gather, meet Trump's requirement to be working.

My larger point is that there are companies that are essentially benefiting from SNAP as an unofficial subsidy for the piss-poor wages that they are paying. The, in once instance, second-generation billionaires who are the owners are profiting from welfare.

But not a word of umbrage against them. Just against the workers.

Curious.

Yes, government subsidies create market distortion. There is nothing surprising about that. This is especially true when it is central planners in the federal government trying to steer the ship from afar. The answer is to gradually get the federal government out of the welfare business.

[farscott]

I am not surprised that there is a lot of conflict about public assistance and work because I am totally conflicted about it. My morals, my compassion, and my financial sense are all in conflict. Here is how my (not very interesting) internal monologue goes.

1) In the past, society made no attempt to guarantee people lived well. The line says, "pursuit of happiness", which does not imply a guarantee of happiness. People starved in the USA -- literally died from not having enough food to eat.

2) We have made a decision that watching grandma starve is not what we want to see, so we established safety nets.

3) There are people who will take advantage of opportunities, so there will be people who take advantage of getting stuff for not working -- or paying less knowing there is a safety net for their employees.

4) 2) and 3) conflict, but I still do not want to see grandma starve. And the vast majority of people who get the aid need the aid.

5) The system will always be gamed, but it looks like more than 80% aid goes to people who need it. But if more people game it, it will collapse (see federal debt).

6) If the people need it, why are they driving Navigators? How are they paying for the gas and insurance on that vehicle while not being able to afford food? See comment on gaming the system.

7) See 5).

The biggest difference I see among people is that some look for how things should be while others look at how things are. And neither is happy because nothing is 100%.

TL;DR: USA is the worst place -- except for everywhere else.

[Stephanie B]

Oh trust me, I have plenty of words of umbrage against certain billionaires in our country. The Waltons rank high on my shit list and if I were a socialist who believed in taking people's money, I'd start right there. Why Arkansas ranks 45th out of 50 states, ranking 49th in health care, 42nd in education, 40th in economy, 41st in opportunity, and 47th in crime - when it currently is home to 3 of the 15 richest people in the US (that's 20% of the richest people in the country!) - remains a mystery to me. A mystery that can only be explained by greed and entitlement.

Is it the Walton's job to make Arkansas great? No. I'm not saying it is their job. But each of them has 50 billion bucks in the bank and you'd think that they'd be interested in not living in a shit hole. That is, after all, what the great industrialists did for our country - why we have nice museums and architecture, public works, etc. There is (or was) a moral obligation to give something back after you've made it - and the Waltons have never given fuck all. And I think they are pieces of shit for it.

Mistreating their employees is just another example of them as terrible people.

And its why I don't support Walmart.

The first two libraries I remember using were Carnegie libraries. On the other hand, in St. Louis, the owner of the football team there (who is married to a Walton), relocated his team because the city wouldn’t build him a new stadium.

Cleveland, a city with some of the shittier schools in the nation, spent a third of billion nearly 20 years ago to build a new football stadium.

Rich folks are just as addicted to government benefits.


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[RoyGBiv]

I am not surprised that there is a lot of conflict about public assistance and work because I am totally conflicted about it. My morals, my compassion, and my financial sense are all in conflict. Here is how my (not very interesting) internal monologue goes.

1) In the past, society made no attempt to guarantee people lived well. The line says, "pursuit of happiness", which does not imply a guarantee of happiness. People starved in the USA -- literally died from not having enough food to eat.

2) We have made a decision that watching grandma starve is not what we want to see, so we established safety nets.

3) There are people who will take advantage of opportunities, so there will be people who take advantage of getting stuff for not working -- or paying less knowing there is a safety net for their employees.

4) 2) and 3) conflict, but I still do not want to see grandma starve. And the vast majority of people who get the aid need the aid.

5) The system will always be gamed, but it looks like more than 80% aid goes to people who need it. But if more people game it, it will collapse (see federal debt).

6) If the people need it, why are they driving Navigators? How are they paying for the gas and insurance on that vehicle while not being able to afford food? See comment on gaming the system.

7) See 5).

The biggest difference I see among people is that some look for how things should be while others look at how things are. And neither is happy because nothing is 100%.

TL;DR: USA is the worst place -- except for everywhere else.

Government is not a charity. "Welfare" is charity.

Which would get people from welfare to independence faster and with greater compassion.. ?
-- Government programs that force a one size fits all plan and removes most incentives for local involvement and participation.
-- A true "charitable organization" approach that involves local people helping neighbors

It's easy to take advantage of a system when only a far away bureaucrat is watching vs having to look your neighbor in the eye and ask for help, or, being able to look your neighbor in the eye and gain an understanding of their individual circumstances and help them in a more personalized, individual, constructive way.

Only a moron (or government) could have reasoned that our current system would be a solution to poverty.
Instead, it's created a permanent welfare class.

That said... I have no idea how to unwind it...