Well you are getting a lot more specific. My WAG is just "must be in all that other stuff".Originally Posted by mnealtx
Well you are getting a lot more specific. My WAG is just "must be in all that other stuff".
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
I received an email from Randy Lee this afternoon saying he thought it was related to the locking block, and this is why they have their own part in development.
After 20 minutes on hold, I got S&W customer service, and they are sending a pre-paid label for the four pistols. Will be very interesting to see what they do, although the start wasn't promising when the CS rep said she hadn't heard of accuracy issues with the 9mm pistols. It is incredibly frustrating to have to wade through this process just to get an M&P 9 with acceptable accuracy, and I can only imagine that the factory relies on most shooters not testing them at distance -- or, based on my experience, they would have half as many pistols coming back as they ship out.
With the Rogers School coming up in March, and Alaska summer a few months later, I am very tempted to throw all the M&P pistols in process aside into a box for either Randy Lee or S&W to resolve the issues, and for better or worse, just shoot a Glock for the foreseeable future, and carry an HK LEM in extreme cold.
Locking blocks were the first thing I thought of, slide variances the second. It'd be interesting to do some parts swapping back and forth and see if it was one or the other.Well you are getting a lot more specific. My WAG is just "must be in all that other stuff".
Mike
Picking mine up from FedEx Monday. It better be <edit> useful.
Not really sure how their sponsored shooters are satisfied while the rest of us get kicked in the balls.
Last edited by ToddG; 02-01-2012 at 02:01 PM. Reason: language
Think for yourself. Question authority.
Do you *really* think they're shooting box-stock pistols?
Mike
I don't know what they are using but if it is different then S&W does have a solution and I want it.
Think for yourself. Question authority.
I'd like it too!
I'm sure the S&W Performance Center would have no problems tuning up our guns...just takes money!
M&P Pistol Action Package $110
Polish Ramp
Tuned Action
Install Performance Center Sear
Test Fire for Function
Express Service $140
Mike
I recently purchased an M&P9 FS (no TS), and so far I love the gun. I have 560 rounds through it, but I haven't been doing much more than just trying to get used to everything. If I go out to the range and shoot some 3-5 shot groups at 25 yards, what would y'all consider "acceptable" before calling S&W customer service and are they going to do anything for me?
I'm new to handguns, but not new to shooting in general. What is acceptable accuracy from one of these things (M&P9) at 25 yards?
Keith
New to the forum-- so hello to all. I was pointed to this thread by a friend, and thought I'd weigh in a bit/ask some questions.
As you discovered, GJM, the 9 Pro typically favors the heavier projectiles over the light ones; I've heard the same said for the other 9mm models as well, but it sounds like you've got a couple with issues that are unrelated to the ammo diet! While I never benched my 9 Pro with factory loads/115s, I saw a marked improvement (freestyle, at 15 yards) after switching to the MG 124 grain JHPs I shoot for competition, training and practice-- and this before the load was fully developed. It seems that most 124s and the vast majority of 147s yield better performance; my guess is that it has to do with the bearing surfaces, as my chosen projectile is marked by very little point above the ogive, and it runs like a top!
As to Randy's comment-- is that in regards to the Barsto barrel that APEX is releasing sometime this year (we hope), or are they actually working on a replacement locking block as well?
Like others have so logically noted, the general consensus is that the problematic pistols suffer from some type of locking issues-- attributed most commonly to the lugs and block, although I think the notion of stacking tolerances in the slide being a factor is also pretty sound. Most commonly, these problems reveal themselves in the forms of vertically strung groups-- is that what you saw in your testing, GJM? Or were they just all over the place?
Some folks, upon sending their guns in to S&W, have gotten them back with new top ends and barrels. Several have had the problem corrected. But others have received the gun untouched, along with a test target (shot with WWB, I believe) that shows a fine group-- at 15 yards. Many report that their problem guns do indeed group well at that range, but anything beyond really sees the group opening up. I had some links stored around here somewhere, but my HD nuked out not long ago and they were lost to the netherworld. The Benos forums were a great source of information on this topic, if anyone cares to browse-- lots of M&P owners shooting lots and lots of rounds, looking for every little edge they can!
In regards to the guns the S&W Competition Team shoots. While I can't speak for Julie Golob, I did have the pleasure of squadding with Tony Phan last October (2011 Gator Classic), and talking at reasonable length about his sponsorship and pistol. Suffice it to say-- the improvements that have been made can be almost entirely attributed to Dan Burwell, and Tony himself (or a friend-- I can't remember who he said did the stippling). Prior to this work, his gun was no different than any of the other Pro models on the market.
As far as I've been able to piece together, these accuracy issues are limited almost exclusively to the 9mm models. I have a vague recollection of the subject coming up in terms of .40, but I don't remember whether or not it was just a concern, or a verified issue. I have never heard so much as a whisper of accuracy problems in the .45 offerings, though-- which is good for me, because that's what I carry (FS). As always, I'm here to learn as well-- so if anyone has news or reference to the opposite, please share!
One final note-- from the "grapevine". A close friend, who would definitely know what he's talking about, said that with several overseas contracts for 9mm M&Ps outstanding, there will not be many released to the US civilian market for several months to come. If there really is a consistent accuracy problem, with so many tens of thousands of guns being put out there for immediate use, I should think we'll hear about it in the news! GJM's test is the first I've seen of such a size and focus-- I sincerely hope his findings are not becoming the norm!
I'm super interested in what happens with Smith, so on top of the blog section of this site (where I've lurked for quite some time), I suppose I'll be keeping my eye on this thread, at least.
I expect to be able to shoot at least 5 inch ten-round group at 25 yards, unsupported. Doesnt sound like much, but I don't find it that easy either. Note that this is a composite performance, mine and gun's, so an intrinsic accuracy of a pistol should be better than that.
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