VZ 58 - Any experiences?

[Kyle Reese]

JMJAMES,
Right now i'm just running it with irons. May add a Troy rail and T-1 to it in the future.

[Al T.]

If you get it, I want to shoot it.

IMHO, get a bunch of magazines. I like a minimum of 10 per semi-auto, which is why I don't own a Scar-17.

[jmjames]

If you get it, I want to shoot it.

IMHO, get a bunch of magazines. I like a minimum of 10 per semi-auto, which is why I don't own a Scar-17.

The VZ 58 mags are cheap... $13 each? That's about as cheap as it gets without owning a G3.

If I knew that 7.62x39 could be a winner for hunting deer and hogs in the local area (Al... thoughts on that?) I would definitely consider this as a competitor with an AR for my needs. Owning one rifle is a lot more attractive to me than what amounts to nearly two rifles (AR lower + 2 uppers/optics) considering that I don't get to shoot rifles very often, and the ammo is cheap enough that it's not a budget buster on the range.

J.Ja

[DocGKR]

When using good quality 7.62x39mm ammunition such as the Hornady 123 gr VMAX, Winchester 123 gr JSP (X76239), and the Lapua 125 gr JSP fired out of a 16” barrel, terminal performance is on par with lightweight .30-30 or the new .300BLK loads. This is more than sufficient for deer and hogs.

[Al T.]

^^^^^ What he said. What you'll find around here is guys who can't shoot blaming the equipment. IMHO, depending on the exact platform, 7.62x39 is a 200ish yard cartridge. Unless you are in agricultural fields, no need for more here. And if you are shooting bean fields, you are in a very specialized zone where your glass alone will buy a couple of AKs.

[Odin Bravo One]

I like them, but the issue I have is that for the same price as a well built AK, I can get a well built AK.

Like the AR, and 1911, an entire cottage industry has been built up over the years here in the US to support AK's, and the number of well qualified people to work on them has increased as well.........albeit on a smaller scale when compared to the two platforms listed above.

Still, it is a nice rifle and if one came to me at a decent price, I would consider it. After all, the only thing between me and the exact configuration of optics and accessories for any rifle is money. If you can dream it and afford it, someone out there can built it.

[jmjames]

When using good quality 7.62x39mm ammunition such as the Hornady 123 gr VMAX, Winchester 123 gr JSP (X76239), and the Lapua 125 gr JSP fired out of a 16” barrel, terminal performance is on par with lightweight .30-30 or the new .300BLK loads. This is more than sufficient for deer and hogs.

^^^^^ What he said. What you'll find around here is guys who can't shoot blaming the equipment. IMHO, depending on the exact platform, 7.62x39 is a 200ish yard cartridge. Unless you are in agricultural fields, no need for more here. And if you are shooting bean fields, you are in a very specialized zone where your glass alone will buy a couple of AKs.

Sounds good to me. The only prospect I have on hunting grounds right now is a friend's land, and he says that some of his shots for deer are in the 150 - 175 yard range, and a lot are closer. I get the impression that his land is mixed woods and fields. I'm also wide open to any other locations, though.

This is something to consider, for sure. Funny how a question from curiosity can lead one down a whole new path of exploration.

J.Ja

[Tim]

I was graciously offered the use of one by Templar (commie weapon expert) for an AK class some time ago. It was reliable, accurate, and much lighter than you would expect it to be by looking at it. The model I was borrowing was also very well made. (FredM brought one that broke on him fairly early) The rifle was clearly capable of far better accuracy than I could wring out of it with my meager skills. At 200 yards offhand I had no trouble making shots on a 12" piece of steel, even with a hodgepodge of commie ammo. At closer ranges the only thing that kept me out of the X ring of an NRA bullseye was my own incompetence. The trigger took a bit of getting used to, but I adapted to it fairly easily once I started using a rolling break.

I did find all the sharp edges on the rifle annoying to the point where I wore gloves most of the time. It's been said in the past that the AK is like a cheese grater...well, the CZ is doubly so. The magazines are aluminum and specialized which means they won't be as to-hell-and-back durable or as cheap and plentiful as good AK magazines.

Overall I had a very positive impression of the rifle after using it for a couple of days and wouldn't hesitate to buy one if I had sufficient finances to own whatever I wanted.

This is the rifle that I loaned to TC, with the man himself running it in the first two pictures. It was built buy InRange from one of the 100 Slovakian receivers imported into the US and a pristine parts kit.

The kit was from a basically unfired service rifle. The brake was permanently attached because the vz58 barrel is slightly shorter than 16". I had the carbine for several years and round count was around 5K when I traded it to a good friend who just had to have it.

My personal opinion on the vz58 is that it's a very interesting carbine that weighs less than an AKM (stamped receiver) even though it has a milled steel receiver. Very accurate carbine, and that accuracy could be improved by quality ammo and a good optic. As it stands with iron sights and typical Russian commercial steel cased ammo, you're looking at a 3-5 MOA carbine with a competent shooter behind it.

The weapon is striker fired, and the trigger is almost Glock like.

Magazines are indeed different than an AK, and are made from a very heavy duty aluminum. They are about 4 times the thickness of a GI M16 magazine.

Method of operation is a short stroke gas piston (like an FAL) and tilting bolt (very similar to the Walther P-38/Beretta 92 series). More than robust enough for the caliber it's chambered for, and softer shooting than an AK variant.

Troy is either making or importing an optic rail system similar to the Ultimak, which replaces the gas tube.

If you already have a quality AK variant, I'd say sure, pick one up. If you don't have a quality AK variant, I'd probably recommend the AK over the vz as you will have a much larger support structure in place for the AK.

As TC said, mine broke fairly early in a LAV AK operator's class in the spring of 2010. It turns out that my FFL installed (incorrectly, it turns out) a "match" trigger in the weapon. Something in the trigger mech broke (I forget at the moment what specifically), but Czechpoint repaired the rifle at no cost to me and promptly shipped it back. 1200 or so rounds later, it shoots just fine.

I like it so much I'm adding a second on to my collection.

The Slovak troops here like theirs just fine too.

And there is the lesson in all of this....stick with factory original D-Technik/Czechpoint vz58's and avoid the Century guns like the plague. If you're feeling really adventurous/contrarian, then find an excellent parts kit and a CNC Warrior receiver and have someone who knows what they're doing build it.

My rifle was built by InRange before other vz58's were readily available.

[jmjames]

This is the rifle that I loaned to TC, with the man himself running it in the first two pictures. It was built buy InRange from one of the 100 Slovakian receivers imported into the US and a pristine parts kit.

The kit was from a basically unfired service rifle. The brake was permanently attached because the vz58 barrel is slightly shorter than 16". I had the carbine for several years and round count was around 5K when I traded it to a good friend who just had to have it.

My personal opinion on the vz58 is that it's a very interesting carbine that weighs less than an AKM (stamped receiver) even though it has a milled steel receiver. Very accurate carbine, and that accuracy could be improved by quality ammo and a good optic. As it stands with iron sights and typical Russian commercial steel cased ammo, you're looking at a 3-5 MOA carbine with a competent shooter behind it.

The weapon is striker fired, and the trigger is almost Glock like.

Magazines are indeed different than an AK, and are made from a very heavy duty aluminum. They are about 4 times the thickness of a GI M16 magazine.

Method of operation is a short stroke gas piston (like an FAL) and tilting bolt (very similar to the Walther P-38/Beretta 92 series). More than robust enough for the caliber it's chambered for, and softer shooting than an AK variant.

Troy is either making or importing an optic rail system similar to the Ultimak, which replaces the gas tube.

If you already have a quality AK variant, I'd say sure, pick one up. If you don't have a quality AK variant, I'd probably recommend the AK over the vz as you will have a much larger support structure in place for the AK.



And there is the lesson in all of this....stick with factory original D-Technik/Czechpoint vz58's and avoid the Century guns like the plague. If you're feeling really adventurous/contrarian, then find an excellent parts kit and a CNC Warrior receiver and have someone who knows what they're doing build it.

My rifle was built by InRange before other vz58's were readily available.

Thanks for the additional information!

That is a REALLY nice looking rifle! Troy *seems* to no longer carry that rail system, but many outlets still have a few in stock. There is also a polymer version of the same, but I'm not sure what the quality of that is like. For about $80, Czechpoint will send it out with a side rail (similar to, but I don't think compatible with the AK side rails) and another $60 or so seems to get you a mount that fits it and positions the optics out of the way of that cavern of an ejection port. There's an outfit selling a small rail that fits on the forward part of the receiver too, but I don't think that anything bigger than an Aimpoint Micro or perhaps an EOTech should be put there due to the ejection pattern.

Also, thank you for pre-emptively answering the question that I didn't yet ask (though I had guess the answer to...) regarding D-Technik/Czechpoint vs. Century.

My AK itch is fairly well scratched right now, I have a Saiga 12 and I just sold my PSL/FPK, and a friend of mine will likely let me hold his WASR-10 if I feel like it... the VZ's seem really nice from everything said here, and I could see myself talking myself into getting one.

J.Ja

[jmjames]

Well, I just got home earlier today from the FFL with a VZ 58. It's a D-Techniks receiver, the box says "CZ USA" on it, and it was a safe queen, so it may be old enough to have been imported by CZ. If it has ever been fired, it was extraordinarily little.

Initial impressions are very positive. The gun is nicely finished. The previous owner Tupperwared it with the FAB Defense handgaurds and collapsable/folding stock. The top rail where the upper handguard was feels unmoving despite not being pinned in place (some rail designs use one of the pins to help hold it in place), but research online and a general look at the design does not have me hopeful on that score. The collapsing stock isn't the best, I think it is clumsy when folded, the hinge feels cheap, and it adds a lot of weight to an otherwise light gun. I honestly feel that I'd prefer it with the stock plasti-wood furniture over the current stuff.

Bonesteel Arms (who gets high marks in the AK community for their folding stocks) says they will have a folder soon for the VZ 58. Their stocks are CNC milled out of aluminum with an eye to light weight. I'll be ordering one of their stocks when available, and I'm ordering one of their rail sets (it's American-made, and I cannot find out if the ones Troy was re-selling are), which are well priced, look well designed, and are also pretty lightweight. The big thing for me now is to get an H1 on there. I'm tempted to save some bucks and go with a PRO, but this thing is so crazy light, I'm really eager to keep it that way. I'm also swapping the pistol grip with a US made one (in the current config it needs 2 US made parts in the magazine to stay inside 922r... getting those two parts on the gun lets me use cheap, available surplus mags).

My only other knock on the gun right now, is that it's got the 14.5" barrel with a welded on barrel extension. That barrel extension is not a brake, it's like a piece of metal. I'll likely replace it with a brake... or perhaps turn it into a brake myself.

So really, every "problem" I have with the gun is easily remedied.

Other observations...

* This is LIGHT. Like "AR light", if not lighter (though the metal mags + 7.62x39 make up for it).
* Very well constructed, nice fit/finish.
* Easy-to-understand internals.
* The controls beat an AK, but the AR gets the nod for a bolt release and better safety. The magazine release is a bit odd, it is positioned to the left and the trigger guard blocks it from the right a little.
* Mag insertion is a dream compared to the AK. It's still rock-n-lock, but not nearly as fussy. It's easy to insert on a closed bolt.
* The trigger has a touch of creep in it. Oh well.

I'm really looking forwards to hitting the range with this.

J.Ja