The Laser

[JodyH]

Now that Todd has installed and tested his CT laser grips, let's talk lasers.

I'm a huge fan of the laser after one good low light practice session comparing light/laser vs. irons.
I immediately bought a laser/light combination for every nightstand pistol in the house.
My P2000 and my wife's Glock 19 both have Viridian C5L green laser, 100 lumen LED light combinations.
My Ruger LCP pocket BUG has a Crimson Trace Laserguard.
My S&W J frame pocket BUG has Crimson Trace Lasergrips.

Our club held a low light night match a few months ago and my wife shot her Glock/C5L.
The laser advantage was obvious and significant. She actually shot faster and more accurately under the poor low light conditions than she normally does in our day matches.
The advantage was so great that there was a LOT of interest in her C5L after the match.

As soon as I can find a low profile laser and AIWB holster combination I'll be adding one to my CCW as well.
The advantage a laser gives under low light and from sub-optimal shooting positions is impressive.

[JodyH]

P2000 w/C5L


P2000/C5L, 10 shots at 25 yards with <.5 splits, total darkness.

[JDM]

I'll be watching this thread closely; I'm about to pull the trigger on some laser grips for my M&P.

Jody, talk to Rhome @ DGL, he just made me an IWB#4 for an M&P/TRL-1. Its big, but usable. I bet he could make something very comfortable for the P2K/C5L.

[JodyH]

I'm going to wait on Crimson Trace's new compact rail mounted laser, it looks like it would be perfect for a CCW gun.

[VolGrad]

I'm going to wait on Crimson Trace's new compact rail mounted laser, it looks like it would be perfect for a CCW gun.

As much as this would suck WRT orderng all new holsters I might like this better as well. I have tried both the old rear activated and the new front activated GLOCK CT grips and hated the feel of both. I simply can't get comfortable with either and sold them both off.

This combined with the fact I found myself to be a laser chaser rather than using my sights (when I still could) turned me off.

[JodyH]

I don't know of any instructors who have laser specific training, I wish I could find one.
It took me a few range sessions to develop good habits with lasers and avoid the bad habits.
The biggest thing is to remember that the irons are primary and the laser is a supplement.
It's hard to do because the pretty red light brings out the kitten in all of us.

[ToddG]

I'm a huge fan of the laser after one good low light practice session comparing light/laser vs. irons.

I've been a believer since the mid to late 90s thanks primarily to the prodding of our own Dr. David Armstrong. David arranged for me to get a T&E set for my Beretta from Crimson Trace. I had a heck of a time zeroing them (perfect sight picture syndrome, which is very common with the laser) but then took the grips to a 2-day pistol class. At the end of the class not only was I impressed, but the instructors -- most of whom teased me for having a laser at the beginning of day 1 -- all wanted to know how to get a set.

The two biggest benefits in my mind are:

1. Ability to aim the gun precisely and quickly even when target focused. Under stress, it's very hard to overcome the natural tendency to look at your threat instead of your front sight. I practice a lot more than most folks and even for me, today, there are times in a FOF scenario when I'll break shots without a front sight focus... not on purpose, but because Byron screaming around a corner unexpectedly with gun a-blazin' just sort of demands visual attention.
   
2. Intimidation factor. While I would never count on it, both CTC and many LE agencies issuing/authorizing lasers (including the U.S. Military) have numerous documented cases of BGs who did not respond to guns pointed at them but immediately ceased hostility when a red dot appeared on their chests. It's been suggested that many BGs, whether career criminals or veteran soldiers, get guns pointed and even fired at them all the time... obviously they survived so the fear of a gun is small. But no one mistakes the seriousness of a red dot over his heart. Again I am not suggesting this is a sure thing or even something I consider as part of my "tactics." But if it just happens to save me the trouble and expense of having to shoot someone, it pays for the CTCs a hundred times over.

Our club held a low light night match a few months ago and my wife shot her Glock/C5L.
The laser advantage was obvious and significant. She actually shot faster and more accurately under the poor low light conditions than she normally does in our day matches.

The Range in NC (host of the Carolina Cup and the 2012 IDPA Nationals) runs a low light match every year. I showed up one year with a laser-equipped gun and aced it. The next year, the Match Director light heartedly designed some stages that were intentionally designed to screw with the laser, like red-shirted targets. Still aced it.

I don't know of any instructors who have laser specific training, I wish I could find one.

The whole point of the CTC Master Trainer Summit was to build a "training module" for laser equipped pistols. A few of the guys present did go on to teach some classes but the whole thing petered out as support from CTC waned. The other issue, considering that most people have red lasers, is the need to perform the training in something other than bright daylight.

The biggest thing is to remember that the irons are primary and the laser is a supplement.
It's hard to do because the pretty red light brings out the kitten in all of us.

That's a great way to say it. While I'll be concentrating a lot on the laser over the next few weeks, my normal practice regimen was about 20% laser and 80% iron shooting.

[JodyH]

IMO the green laser is magnitudes better at handgun ranges than the red lasers.
Our night match proved this, with everyone who was watching agreeing.
The green was much easier to see against all backgrounds.
The downside of the green laser is... it's easier to see. It was much easier to trace the green laser back to the source, especially when smoke and dust was in the air.
Light/laser discipline would be much more important with the green laser.

The Viridian also has a larger dot than the Crimson Trace.
While not an issue at handgun ranges, the CT is noticeably more precise past 35 yards or so.
Green lasers eat batteries like candy, you MUST keep a fresh battery in your green laser.
Once the C5L gives you the low battery warning, you have maybe 1 minute before it's dead.
I change batteries in my C5L every other month at a minimum depending on how many times I activate it during dry fire practice.
I'll change batteries at the end of every low light practice session.

[ToddG]

I'd actually have no problem changing batteries often on a green CTC, but at least back when I was involved with them the company thought it was marketing suicide.

[jetfire]

Put me down in the "huge fan of lasers" camp as well. I was incredibly skeptical of lasers on guns until I had the chance to attend a CTC sponsored writer's gig taught by another Todd; we played with lasers in one of the Blackwater shoot houses and I was sold. Since then, I've had lasers on all my "serious" guns, and the only reason I don't have a laser on my Gen4 Glock 21 is they don't make one for it.

The real "holy smokes" moment for me and lasers was using them in total darkness at Gunsite last year. I'd put them on all my guns, but IDPA thinks a laser is cheating.