Thoughts on violencedynamics.com class

[SLG]

He was a member since '11 but hasn't been back since he got roughly handled in that AIWB thread last summer.

Of course, the firearms training industry is full of people who react poorly to criticism.

I think most of us react poorly to criticism. Sometimes I handle it well, other times not so much. Human, and all.

I do like to see people in this industry teach from a base of experience though. It's what separates us from the academic world.

[Odin Bravo One]

I think most of us react poorly to criticism. Sometimes I handle it well, other times not so much. Human, and all.

I do like to see people in this industry teach from a base of experience though. It's what separates us from the academic world.

This is precisely why I stopped doing open enrollment training: people can't handle critiques, let alone criticism. And the lack of experience from many instructors lead to classes full of students doing just plain dumb shit, a lot of times tactics read out of a magazine or developed from a video game.

And it really upsets me when someone doesn't like me. As most of my shooting buddies know.

[SLG]

This is precisely why I stopped doing open enrollment training: people can't handle critiques, let alone criticism. And the lack of experience from many instructors lead to classes full of students doing just plain dumb shit, a lot of times tactics read out of a magazine or developed from a video game.

And it really upsets me when someone doesn't like me. As most of my shooting buddies know.

This is one of the reasons why Todd and I got along so well. He was very good at taking criticism, and he was critical as well. Hard to improve yourself when you don't have critical people around you.

[GRV]

This is one of the reasons why Todd and I got along so well. He was very good at taking criticism, and he was critical as well. Hard to improve yourself when you don't have critical people around you.

Worth repeating.

A golden trait. Makes me that much more upset I never met him.

[Tamara]

This is one of the reasons why Todd and I got along so well. He was very good at taking criticism, and he was critical as well. Hard to improve yourself when you don't have critical people around you.

I liked this and unliked it so I could like it again. Which I think is a first for me on this forum.

[pax]

SLG,

Thanks for the heads up about the bad mood. Grief will do that to a person, and I'll keep it in mind.

The website talks about "world class" instructors who all have years of experience "...facing and using force." This does not seem to be the case.

Yeah, I'm definitely the red-headed stepchild there. You got me.

For the other instructors, you can find Rory Miller's bio here. His law enforcement (corrections) background gave him upwards of 200+ documented uses of force -- not a particularly high or unusual number for an officer who worked bookings in a busy system, but nothing to sneeze at either.

Kasey Keckeisen is a seasoned LEO who works actively in an unnamed department in the upper midwest. He's a SWAT team leader and SWAT training coordinator. I cannot speak to his uses of force, though I understand he has more than a few documented, and am looking forward to meeting him for the first time this week.

Terry Trahan grew up as a street kid. Lots of uses of force in that environment, lots more experience learning how not to get into trouble in the first place.

Marc's bio is well known. Same basic background as Terry: street rat makes good. He brings with him all the stupid liabilities that any macho idiot child from that background would bring. (And I'm damned glad that I didn't start writing or putting my stuff out in public when I was in my 20s, and I had a plain vanilla suburban upbringing without the testosterone poisoning these guys had to deal with. There's enough embarrassing crap I wrote ten or twelve years ago floating around, without adding 'macho 20 yr old' writing into that mix!)

And yes, I understand what you're saying about the company one keeps. Nevertheless, here we are.

What are your qualifications to teach weapons retention?

Here's the link again: here. You will find my HR creds about halfway down that page.

Along those lines, I don't think that FAS instructor creds will get you very far here. Mr. Hayes came on here a while ago, and didn't quite receive the welcome he might have liked. Something to do with his lack of legal understanding, iirc.

Yeah, I understand that people we're close to and respect in person sometimes get crosswise with other people we generally like and respect online. That says nothing about anyone's teaching or shooting credentials in real life -- as I think the founding of this forum would attest. Marty does have a legal degree, which puts his legal knowledge significantly above many other online arguers, but by no means does that make him infallible. Nor does it mean he necessarily agrees with all other people who have legal degrees (I guess if all the lawyers agreed on everything, the rest of us would really be screwed!). He and Massad Ayoob work together quite a bit and are simpatico, which I understand automatically puts him crosswise with some folks just because Ayoob. Known by the company one keeps, I guess. Btw, I also hold instr creds from MAG, and have an instr dev paper from Rangemaster, and a couple from the Farnams, and a few other things here & there.

Regardless of who hates who in this biz, or who has offended whom online, I explained my background for those who might not know it and that was all.

As someone who has been to a lot of classes, and paid for a fair number of them myself, I always want to make sure I'm getting my time and money's worth. With the glut of instructors out there now, it gets harder and harder to know what you are getting.

Sure -- though I don't expect to see you at any of the VioDy classes this week, so the extra grilling puzzles me. Still, if you honestly want to know about other people's bios, feel free to reach out to them and ask.

pax,

Kathy

[SLG]

PAX,

Fair enough, thanks for the replies.

My final comment was more a general one, and I'm sure there are people who are looking at that class and might like to know some of this stuff. It's stuff I want to know when I'm looking at a class or instructor, and that's all I meant by that.

I've trained with Ayoob, though it was a long time ago. I correspond with John Farnam every few months. I don't do most of the stuff they teach, but I don't think less of them for it, and I don't worry too much about who is crosswise of who when it comes to that kind of stuff. Neither of them have come on here and said silly things. My only interaction with Mr. Hayes was here, and so you can imagine how that might color my thoughts about him. Nonetheless, I don't hate people I disagree with, and if I met Mr. Hayes in person, I might find points of common ground.

You didn't ask about any of that, but I thought it worth clarifying.

[redbone]

Im a little late, but these instructors are a bit out there. Besides 'animal', Terry Trahan also has a strange history. Prolific Internet forum poster/blogger, active in martial arts/knives. He had/has cancer and last year tried to kill himself with an overdose. It didn't work, but the rumor spread that he was dead (corroborated by his family). He let the Internet think he was dead for about 8 or 9 months before surfacing.

Do a search on 'Terry Trahan Dead' and you'll see threads on a lot of forums mourning his loss.

(I take it he was going through some rough things, but wow.)

It's been said before, but the knife community attracts misfits and weirdos. (Probably because there's little pressure testing to see if the techniques really work.).

[LittleLebowski]

It's been said before, but the knife community attracts misfits and weirdos. (Probably because there's little pressure testing to see if the techniques really work.).

Fortunately we have SouthNarc.

[11B10]

SLG,

Thanks for the heads up about the bad mood. Grief will do that to a person, and I'll keep it in mind.



Yeah, I'm definitely the red-headed stepchild there. You got me.

For the other instructors, you can find Rory Miller's bio here. His law enforcement (corrections) background gave him upwards of 200+ documented uses of force -- not a particularly high or unusual number for an officer who worked bookings in a busy system, but nothing to sneeze at either.

Kasey Keckeisen is a seasoned LEO who works actively in an unnamed department in the upper midwest. He's a SWAT team leader and SWAT training coordinator. I cannot speak to his uses of force, though I understand he has more than a few documented, and am looking forward to meeting him for the first time this week.

Terry Trahan grew up as a street kid. Lots of uses of force in that environment, lots more experience learning how not to get into trouble in the first place.

Marc's bio is well known. Same basic background as Terry: street rat makes good. He brings with him all the stupid liabilities that any macho idiot child from that background would bring. (And I'm damned glad that I didn't start writing or putting my stuff out in public when I was in my 20s, and I had a plain vanilla suburban upbringing without the testosterone poisoning these guys had to deal with. There's enough embarrassing crap I wrote ten or twelve years ago floating around, without adding 'macho 20 yr old' writing into that mix!)

And yes, I understand what you're saying about the company one keeps. Nevertheless, here we are.



Here's the link again: here. You will find my HR creds about halfway down that page.



Yeah, I understand that people we're close to and respect in person sometimes get crosswise with other people we generally like and respect online. That says nothing about anyone's teaching or shooting credentials in real life -- as I think the founding of this forum would attest. Marty does have a legal degree, which puts his legal knowledge significantly above many other online arguers, but by no means does that make him infallible. Nor does it mean he necessarily agrees with all other people who have legal degrees (I guess if all the lawyers agreed on everything, the rest of us would really be screwed!). He and Massad Ayoob work together quite a bit and are simpatico, which I understand automatically puts him crosswise with some folks just because Ayoob. Known by the company one keeps, I guess. Btw, I also hold instr creds from MAG, and have an instr dev paper from Rangemaster, and a couple from the Farnams, and a few other things here & there.

Regardless of who hates who in this biz, or who has offended whom online, I explained my background for those who might not know it and that was all.



Sure -- though I don't expect to see you at any of the VioDy classes this week, so the extra grilling puzzles me. Still, if you honestly want to know about other people's bios, feel free to reach out to them and ask.

pax,

Kathy

OK, I'm gonna stick my neck out here. First, everyone - PLEASE know that since I began reading p-f, I've learned much on many subjects, from many bona fide SME's and literal icons of self-defense and firearms. I cannot believe how the people here, especially considering who they are and what they've accomplished, are so utterly selfLESS, patient and sharing. It is THE best resource for anyone desiring to improve any aspect of their equipment, mindset, skillset. I am totally sincere when I say I am very grateful to all here. Now, every now and then, I catch a bit of a dig at Massad Ayoob - the latest one I've seen here ^^^. Always very subtle - but there, nonetheless. Everything I read elsewhere is 100% positive. What am I missing?