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  1. #1
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    Mar 2011
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    AAR - "Speed Kills"/"Shooting on the Move" - Sept 24, 25th; Indianapolis, IN

    AAR Speed Kills/Shooting on the Move
    Instructor: Todd Louis Green
    Location: Eagle Creek Gun Range, Indianapolis, IN
    September 24th and 25th 2011

    I had read about TLG and his Aim Fast Hit Fast course and questioned whether or not I could do a fair job of the FAST Drill. Silly? Well, not really as I have not been shooting drills regularly for close to three years. Needless to say I knew this course would “out” me. TLG did not disappoint.

    The Range

    I loved the facility. Located on the west side of Indy just off of I-465. It has provisions for rain with several concrete roof sections that served as a weather barrier – which we ended up needing as it threatened to rain on Saturday and rained all day on Sunday. The range was divided – one side for the public and the other side was for us. There were eleven students and we had twelve targets. So there was ample room for us. The range was 50 yards long, too. Like I said, nice.

    The Class

    The class is not for beginners and one needs to have his/her fundamentals well understood and executable as the class is fast paced and in this class there were several very good shooters.

    We started off shooting Dot Torture at 5 yards and progressed to our first FAST Test. I had a great draw and hit both head targets, had a decent reload and then proceeded to look at my handiwork while I pressed the trigger three times. I had a nice tight group – outside the 8” circle… 6.54 seconds plus a three second penalty. It would be my best time of the weekend, I’m sad to say. We then worked on Press Outs. This is where I struggled – not having paid too much attention to it prior to this class. Well, maybe I had but I do not recall really focusing on it in the manner Todd had us work on it. Not having shot in any meaningful manner in over two years had a lot to do with poor technique. I felt that I should be able to go faster. The nerves to my trigger finger would fire but the pistol was (a) not properly aligned and (b) I was not “seeing what needed to be seen”. So I struggled a bit.

    Another drill that I found very fun was a “Walk-Back” drill. No problem you say. Using a timer you have 2 seconds to draw from concealment and hit the 8” diameter circle target. We had proven we could hit the 8” circle three times in 2 seconds so it seemed no big deal. Starting at 3 yards and walking back 5 yards after each student had his/her attempt. Todd and two students moved back to the 30 yard line. I dropped at the 20 yard line where I finished in 2.01 seconds. The timer doesn’t lie and I was happy to go tape my good hits and have a seat. We then ran another FAST Drill.

    Please keep in mind I'm not trying to cover every drill - though I do remember them.

    Shooting on the Move

    This portion involved… shooting while moving forward, backwards and to the side. The instruction was very good and while I won’t go into it at all – take the class – Todd could write a book (and should, I believe) outlining his highly perceptive explanation of how to shoot while on the move. I especially enjoyed this portion of the class. The drills were what one would expect with a twist: shoot while approaching as quickly as you can as long as you can place your sights on the target and obtain good hits. We did the same thing moving backwards. We also approached targets laterally in which we had to re-orient our shoulders while engaging the target. During the explanation it seemed difficult (making the transition, that is) but in practice it was just as Todd had explained: we’ve been walking all of our lives; just let your legs and feet walk and you concentrate on PRESS OUT, TRIGGER CONTROL, FOLLLOW THROUGH. It works.

    We did drills weaving in and out of sandbags while engaging targets and finished with a drill whose name I forget. I nickname it “barrel racing” as there were two barrels placed parallel to three targets. We had to weave around the barrels taking shots at prescribed positions. The pistol was initially loaded with 8 rounds. We had to reload and shoot five more rounds while continually moving. Odd thing is that one had to count rounds as he was moving.

    We had been in the rain for the entire second day and while we were still having fun it was beginning to wear on me a little bit.

    Personal Equipment Issues

    I used a very early production S&W M&P9 with Performance Center sear and a 10-8 rear sight. It performed flawlessly. The same cannot be said for my never-before-fired (purchased the day before) H&K P30 LEM 9mm which I switched to late on Training Day One. It was having issues ejecting in more than one magazine. It seemed okay at the end of Day One. Alas, it was not to be. On Day Two it was giving me the same reliability issues on occasion and after having an unfired cartridge in the chamber and another cartridge lodged nose-first INTO the magazine. I parked it and brought out the M&P.

    After firing 100 rounds of 124 grain +P and going back to the same PMC ammo last week I could not reproduce the failure with the two offending magazines. Pixie Dust? I dunno. I’m just glad it’s running well now.

    Rounds Fired

    I had a case of PMC and I had three boxes left plus three M&P magazines loaded plus some in the bottom of my range bag. I estimate the round count to be just over 800 rounds.

    Great class. Looking forward to doing it all again! Thanks for the observations, feedback and pointers, Todd. I’d like to thank all who was in the class as well. It was a great welcoming to Indiana.

    Update

    I've modified the Variant 2 (heavy trigger return spring - P/N 234405) LEM P30 to include lightweight firing pin return spring (P/N 209296)and the DA/SA hammer spring (214300). This is considered on HKPRO to be the "Todd Green Special" and special it is, too! Thanks for the heads up on this, Todd! I was hoping that I [didn't need to swap out the extractor ass'y I purchased. I thought about what you said over dinner when I stated I ordered one: "Why did you do that? I never heard of one failing"]. You're vindicated.
    Last edited by Mjolnir; 10-02-2011 at 06:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Columbia SC
    Excellent review! Thanks!

    What holster and position (o'clock) were you using?

  3. #3
    Member
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    Mar 2011
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    Not sure, really
    Quote Originally Posted by Al T. View Post
    Excellent review! Thanks!

    What holster and position (o'clock) were you using?
    With the M&P I was using what was essentially a Raven. A local police officer makes something very similar to their design.

    With the H&K I was using a Blade-Tech.

    Each was sitting at 5 o'clock/kidney position.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Excellent AAR. I asked Mjolnir to write an AAR for this class as I have been preoccupied with my first Grandson.

    Todd came to Indy last year to teach AFHF, IMO this class was a logical progression. Some of the skill-sets reinforced from AFHF were a good press out, sight tracking, the all important crouch (helping to control muzzle jump and a position to move in) and the all important trigger control.

    Watched a few of the folks attending the class struggle a bit but by class end they had all made great strides in improving their shooting performance. Todd has a knack of being there when you make mistakes and is quick to jump in with corrective suggestions.

    It's great to train with other like minded individuals who are willing to keep an open mind and try things that may take them out of their comfort zone.

    Todd will be back next year for another class for either a repeat of AFHF or his new class AFHS.

  5. #5
    Thanks, Mjolnir and JohnN! For folks who don't know, this was the second time John hosted a pistol-training.com class and also just happened to be the second time he walked away as top student. Congrats, John!

    On Sunday night, Mjolnir, Tam, and I had dinner after class. It was the first time in my life I felt like the leftist liberal in a group.

    Mjolnir, I'd definitely keep an eye on the P30. It didn't hiccup when I shot it. But there may be something different about how you grip or acquire the gun under pressure (like during timed drills in front of other students) that creates a problem you don't see when practicing calmly by yourself. Especially if you're going to carry it, I'd be 100% certain it's going to work under stress.
    Donate to Rampage For The Cure!
    Todd Louis Green, pistol-training.com Train hard & stay safe!
    "Speed is the essence of war."
    Sun Tzu | Sometimes the fastest way to get fast is to go faster.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    I know we keep talking each year about bringing someone else to Indy, but I have to be honest and say that I just like Todd's class. I like the people that attend and can honestly say that is always a great time. Next year I hope to come alone and talk to more people because I honestly get so much information from them and Todd that is almost silly that the class is as cheap as it is!

    John, great job this year and it shows each year when you keep beating me!

    Todd, I need a gadget! I see the advantages of AIWB just not so comfortable with the Glock there yet!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Chipster View Post
    I know we keep talking each year about bringing someone else to Indy, but I have to be honest and say that I just like Todd's class.
    Chipster -- Certainly do appreciate that sentiment, my friend! But I always encourage "my" hosts to bring in other instructors. A huge part of my skill & mindset development came from taking classes from many different instructors. Some were better than others, to be sure, but I honestly feel I'm better off having learned from dozens of people than just taking a dozen classes from even the very best instructor. Don't get me wrong, from both a professional and economic standpoint I love seeing students come back year after year. But I just don't want a serious shooter to fall into the trap of thinking there is just one flavor of kool-aid.
    Donate to Rampage For The Cure!
    Todd Louis Green, pistol-training.com Train hard & stay safe!
    "Speed is the essence of war."
    Sun Tzu | Sometimes the fastest way to get fast is to go faster.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    I'm not saying I wouldn't attend another instructor's class, just want to make sure John has you back as well! It's a well deserved compliment to you, take it!http://pistol-forum.com/images/smilies/tongue.png

    p.s.

    My pressouts are still sucking a week later!

  9. #9
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    Mar 2011
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    Not sure, really

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    Thanks, Mjolnir and JohnN! For folks who don't know, this was the second time John hosted a pistol-training.com class and also just happened to be the second time he walked away as top student. Congrats, John!

    On Sunday night, Mjolnir, Tam, and I had dinner after class. It was the first time in my life I felt like the leftist liberal in a group.

    Mjolnir, I'd definitely keep an eye on the P30. It didn't hiccup when I shot it. But there may be something different about how you grip or acquire the gun under pressure (like during timed drills in front of other students) that creates a problem you don't see when practicing calmly by yourself. Especially if you're going to carry it, I'd be 100% certain it's going to work under stress.
    Roger that, Todd. I was running some fast strings with some 124 gr Fed HST that had been carried for carried for 6 months then emptied into a box for times like this and it ran well; no issues but only with 150 rounds. Afterwards I finished the remainder of the case of PMC and I'll admit I did not try to shoot it as fast as I could - I practiced my horrible press outs. Actually, when I crouch properly they are fine. L5/L5 issue at timess. Go figure. I think I need to put a case or two thru it before I name her. THEN I can carry her.

    LOL! You're no lefty, Todd. I'm just an informed Southerner - passionate and opinionated. I especially enjoyed the company of both of you.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    What...you're not bringing Larry next year? You're already a good shot but IMO Larry was the most improved shooter from last year.

    Sent from Inspire 4G using Tapatalk

 

 

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