Is Mark Garrity still in business?

[vcdgrips]

Presuming Rob G's timeline is correct, I would offer the following:

Rob G has the patience of Job and is being much more reasonable than myself and I dare say many of those who populate this board.

He was told in LATE MAY/EARLY JUNE (4 months prior to Sept 26) that it would be ready in a week- That was highly inaccurate in the best of lights.

He sent a registered letter in September because his multiple emails went unanswered. Then and only then, after being publically taken to task, did the holster maker provide an explaination... and no product- despite being paid in full.

Over 3 months later, no more communication and a response to the OP is that he should be have patience as quality leather from a part time one man shop takes time ...really.. when the same shop said it would be ready in JUNE?

The holstermaker has held himself out as a professional holster maker. His gear, by all accounts, is of professional grade. He certainly charges a professional price.

A professional does not tell someone that it will be ready in June and still not have it delivered in Jan. The injury and first line career are completely irrelevant given the passage of time and the payment in full. The holstermaker could have timely communicated any of the following to the OP, particularly after Sept 28, when he posted on the forum:

" I got injured and I have no idea when I will have your order" so you can:

a. wait and I will substantially discount it or
b. I will immediatelly refund your money

Sparks is a professional outfit, it limits its orders and keeps its promises re delivery timelines. When Sparks says 20 weeks, it is 20 weeks max.

Rich at CCC, is a professional holster maker with first line career. He has stopped taking orders on at least 2 seperate occasions so he will not exceed a 6 month max delivery window, all the while doing warranty work and loops etc in a 2-3 week time frame. He does not charge the card until the order is ready to ship.

Raven Concealment went from a 14 day wait to a 14 week wait over the course of about 3 years. They have hired staff to communicate with their customers, they provide electronic updates of batch status and they have streamlined production on their most popular items to drive down the wait time. Even when they were flirting with 20 weeks waitimes, they kept their delivery time promises.

Not to get too deep, but many involved in shooting sports and in the martial art of pistolcraft talk about being warriors/sheepdogs/persons of honor, ladies and gentlemen etc-yet delivery timelines in the holstermaking/gunsmithing arena are missed so often that this culture of tardiness has become the norm.


I get that shi# happens. What I do not get is when it does, very few "craftsmen" issue a heartfelt apology for their failure to fullfill their promises, commit to an action plan so it does not happen again and make it right with the customer via a discount or prompt refund.

Bottom Line-Tell me how long I have to wait and how much it is going to cost. But do not take my money and miss the promised delivery window by 6 months and expect me to be patient. Because when you do that, you are not a professional. At best, you are in way over your head and you should get out of the business. At worst, you are acting like a thief or a fraudster and should suffer the appropriate consequences.

Respectfully Submitted,

David Barnes

[EmanP]

I'll consider myself lucky that no I'm not in the same position despite sending emails for the last couple of months trying to place an order without any response.

[EVP]

No disrespect meant to Tony Kanaly and crew, but Sparks has a 6 month wait and only takes orders 3-4 days a month. I'm willing to give a single man shop 12-18 months for a quality product.

It seems that it is obvious on who is running a smoother operation. In all fairness with Milt Sparks they are upfront with what to expect and they deliver on schedule even if it is a long wait.

[SteveK]

My intent wasn't to dis Milt Sparks. I have used their products for over 20 years and they are a class act. I guess the point I was trying to make was that in the last 10 years or so, the custom and semi-custom leather shops have become so overrun with orders (because they do make quality products) that patience is a must. It's just my personal experience, but I placed my order with Mark last spring, he has responded to my emails in a timely manner, he makes the product that I want and I'm willing to wait what I believe is a reasonable time for that product. Even though my basement is loaded with Raven stuff, I can't stand wearing an IWB rig that isn't made of leather. To that note, I have several Sparks rigs old and new. I've waited 3 weeks for some and 6 months for others. They do deliver on time as they state. Sounds like Mark is a little behind the 8ball at the moment but I have the patience of an oyster. I've got money and time invested in his product and I trust he'll get me taken care of. If I'm wrong, well then doom on me. YMMV.

[RobG]

Gentlemen,
The purpose of this thread was to solicit the help of Mr. Garrity’s peers in the holster industry, in re-establishing communication with him. It is my intention to resolve our dispute in a more civilized manner via e-mail or phone conversation. I am still seeking assistance in this matter.

I understand the nature of a one man custom shop. There will be delays, and that is the true cost of a superior product. However, it is unacceptable for a product to be stated one week from delivery, paid for in full, and then neglected for 5 months and counting. My expectations are not unreasonable. I want an honest timeline, fair treatment with respect to prioritization, and prompt communication when we miss this mark. Communication is essential when timelines are not met. Lack of communication implies lack of intent to complete this project.

A rough timeline is as follows:

12 Feb:
On Mark’s list for a holster.

12 April:
Details finalized, estimated complete by the end of May.

1 June:
“I fell a bit behind due to XXXXXXXXX, but I did start your holster and it is coming along nicely. It should be ready (provided I don't get any more surprises) by the end of next week.
Total will be XXXXXXXXXXXXX, at your convenience.
I am presently having a problem with my merchant account that processes credit card orders, so at this time I can only take payment by check or money order mailed to XXXXXXXXX. I apologize for that inconvenience.”

17 June
Check cashed.

27 June
“This past week was hectic at my real job: got called in on overtime on both my usual days off so didn't get it finished. It just needs some minor edgework and final finish to complete. I'll get it done this week and e-mail you with the USPS tracking # when it ships so you can keep an eye out.”

28 July
Cut and paste the same post about his hand, production resumed ……”I had your holster just about completed when this occurred. I should have it finished and out to you within a week.”

Unanswered e-mails:
Sep 2
Sep 18
Sep 22
Oct 18
Oct 20
Oct 27
Nov 4

Called the Phone number listed for his shop late Sep. Presumed he was out of business. Posted here to start this thread.

Registered letter sent 14 Nov establishing a 6 week deadline. Return receipt signed 17 Nov.

27 Dec
Deadline passed with no further communication. BBB report filed.

Patience and understanding has yielded no results. Now I will make myself the alligator closest to the boat. Maybe that will work.

As always, I appreciate your prompt response so we can resolve this like gentlemen.

RobG

[erk1015]

I don't know if it helps any, but I've been dealing with the same issue. I placed my order for an invictus and double mag pouch around the same time as RobG, I can't say the date for sure because I mailed my order in so I don't know when Mr. Garrity received it but I sent it out at the beginning of February. I emailed Mr. Garrity on November 9th to ask where I was and he told me that he would have it to me in two weeks. He charged me for it at that time and I haven't heard a word since then. I've emailed Mr. Garrity multiple times and tried to contact him through this forum with no response, I didn't try the registered mail but since his website says that email is his primary means of communication with customers I don't see why he doesn't respond to it. I used paypal to pay for my order but they have a 45 day time limit to file a dispute or complaint, I didn't know this and only tried to file a dispute with them a few days ago so that was a dead end. I just filed the Better Business Bureau complaint this evening so we'll see if that helps. I just wanted to let RobG know that he's not the only one and if I get this resolved I'll let you know how it turns out.

[SLG]

I have no business ties to Mark Garrity, and no personal relationship with him that can benefit anyone in this thread. Mark has been good to me, but I too have had problems contacting him. As a designer of the Invictus, I am sorry to read about other people having problems. Most disturbing to me is the quote above where Mark says something along the lines of "... my real job kept me busy...". I know what Mark's "real job" is, and I feel for him. However, I would submit that being a holster maker is also his "real job". Maybe if he saw it that way, there would be fewer issues. If not, then maybe he needs to get out of holster making until he retires., since he does make a really excellent product, and it would be a shame not to have him making holsters again.

[YVK]

SLG, since you're the designer of the Invictus and have ethical rights on the holster, would you consider contacting another holster maker to make the design available to masses? I have no dog in the fight here, and I feel both for Mark if he is having some sort of troubles, as well as for his unsatisfied customers. However, the end point is that a well-thought and highly praised holster is not available to those who want it. Combined with the fact that there are not really that many truly dedicated leather appendix rigs on the market, getting somebody else to make Invictus available would be a welcome development.

[SLG]

SLG, since you're the designer of the Invictus and have ethical rights on the holster, would you consider contacting another holster maker to make the design available to masses? I have no dog in the fight here, and I feel both for Mark if he is having some sort of troubles, as well as for his unsatisfied customers. However, the end point is that a well-thought and highly praised holster is not available to those who want it. Combined with the fact that there are not really that many truly dedicated leather appendix rigs on the market, getting somebody else to make Invictus available would be a welcome development.

Please note that I am A designer, not THE designer. I claim no rights to it, ethical or otherwise. I greatly appreciate the other designers, as well as the effort that Mark put into making it a reality. If he can no longer do so, then I'm afraid that's that. I hope he is able to get things going again.

Todd and I are still working (slowly) with another leather holster maker to bring another AIWB design to the market. Hopefully some time not too long after SHOT, though I thought that last year as well. The delay has mostly been my fault, and I plan to devote more time to making it a reality.

[ToddG]

Just to echo SLG, the design is Mark's regardless of where the ideas came from. Two other leather holster makers I've talked to have approached achieving the same concealment/comfort effect in different ways by choice. It's not like anything on the In-Victus is patented. It's unfortunate that so much time and effort was put into designing, testing, and refining a holster that seems unavailable, but luckily AIWB has gone more mainstream in the meantime and far more quality options are available than we saw just a couple years ago when the In-Victus project began.